We talked to a longtime analyst and a CIA officer. Larry C. Johnson is presently investigating contemporary conflicts and terrorism. He is the author of a number of articles, including the fresh York Times.
American War Party
As we know, you have been examining the events related to the war in Ukraine, the full conflict from the very beginning. So I would like to ask first of all whether there is specified a thing as a war organization in the United States, a organization supporting the continuation of this war in Ukraine?
"Well, there has been a immense decline in support of the United States' position on this issue. At the beginning of a peculiar military operation in February 2022, it could be said that most U.S. citizens, possibly 80%, or possibly 90%, considered Russia to be carrying out war crimes and Ukraine was a completely innocent party. Most Americans had no history. They just kept repeating what they were told. Currently, the support for the Ukrainian side is most likely 30 to 40%. I mean, active support, due to the fact that another 30 to 40% of Americans would say they don't care about either side. There's about 20% of those who are closer to the Russian position, like me.
Ukraine as a substitute force
That's what it looks like in society or among experts. What about the administration?
– It's a different pair of boots. The vast majority of the administration not only advocates war against Russia, but besides continues to spread untruth about the full issue. Especially the CIA. Seymour Hersha has known him for 45 years and I consider him my close friend, but I think he's a small mad at me right now, due to the fact that in his last article, he was referring to sources in the administration, but I think he was actually quoting a CIA source. And he heard from him things that were completely fabricated, most likely false. For example, his article, a fewer weeks ago, reported that there was a disturbance in Russia in mobile phones and net access. Meanwhile, I keep in regular contact with many people in Russia, and in those days I besides had this contact with them. No 1 had any problems with cell telephone or net communications. It is akin with the claim about problems of the Russian economy. I had the chance in the last 2 years, since December 2023, to be six times in Moscow and erstwhile in St. Petersburg. I saw a country surviving there, full of shops and beautiful good people. I inactive keep in contact with many different people from Russia; with American migrants who moved there, but besides with any of my fresh Russian friends. The economy is fine there. Meanwhile, we have intelligence circles deceiving the president and telling him the opposite, and besides claiming that Russia bears mass casualties. That's not actual either, but they want to believe it. They believe that there is inactive hope for them. This is due to the fact that the foundation of American politics towards Russia is to treat Ukraine as a substitute force to fight Russia. No substance what happens to the Ukrainian people, he is convinced to die for our interests.
Lies to Interviews
But the intelligence circles seem divided too. I mean even the opinions expressed by Tulsi Gabbard. So what does it actually look like? Isn't it that, for example, the CIA supports the war at 100%, but another services are more skeptical?
Well, Tulsi has no influence in these matters. She should be giving instructions due to the fact that she coordinates all intelligence services. Unfortunately, she hasn't been strong adequate so far, and that's besides bad. The CIA is primarily active in providing analysis. And here's the problem. I say this as a erstwhile analyst who had access to intelligence from all sources. I've had insights into communications made in the State Department, the Military Intelligence Agency, and another military intelligence services. I had access to all their dispatches, as well as information provided by the National Intelligence Agency, communications from another countries that we managed to care about, as well as satellite intelligence. presently providing the second is handled by the National Intelligence Agency in Geospace. My occupation was to collect all this and put together a image of the real situation on this basis. We don't have that right now. If this were done honestly, for example, we could compare the number of fresh cemeteries and fresh graves on them that arise in Russia with the number of those that arise in Ukraine. It would be a painstaking job, but we're perfectly capable of doing it. As far as I know, no 1 thought of that. Instead, we trust on external sources, specified as the UK-based Median. They simply deal with cataloguing all obituary published in Russian newspapers, in 90 or 91 circuits and republics. They are so to have reasonably accurate numbers of Russian casualties. Nobody does that on the Ukrainian side. As a result, politicians in the West are being lied to. They are convinced that Russia is suffering immense losses, and Ukraine has almost no losses at all. They're told Russia can't take it anymore. Meanwhile, the fact is completely the opposite. It is Ukraine that bears losses on a large scale, while Russia's losses are minimal. In addition, Russia is able to recruit and keep more soldiers. Meanwhile, even the most favorable Ukrainian sources in the West openly admit that the defection is decided monthly by 20 to 40,000 Ukrainian soldiers. At any point, they just run out of people. Unfortunately, we inactive have a media establishment stubbornly supporting this war. I think 1 of the main reasons for this is that money is made. That's what all these different advisors, contract winners and military equipment suppliers make.
Corrupt Congressmen
How do U.S. Secret Service and Intelligence control Ukraine? Let's start with anti-corruption organs in Ukraine. There are many opinions thatTheir structures are controlled by the FBI. Do you think that's true?
- No, I don't. I don't think the FBI has any clear presence there. By 1 of my close friends and erstwhile business partners who obtained this data from signalers in Ukraine, I learned that a sum of at least $48 billion was stolen. any of this money went into the pocket of American congressmen, both in the home of Representatives and in the Senate. It turns out that the money was primarily received by Republican Lindsey Graham and politician Chuck Schumer. Do I have proof of that? Nope. However, I learned this from a reliable source. I would besides hazard saying that funds from Ukraine to the United States were then transferred elsewhere. They were transferred through the Baltic countries. I wouldn't be amazed if Kaja Kallas, Ursula von der Leyen, and others, received a generous wage for specified financial services. The level of corruption here is simply astronomical. The money flow from the United States has been halted so far. However, the CIA is inactive very actively active in supporting Ukrainian intelligence and military operations.
Budanow as a CIA asset
What about the fresh character in the Zelenski administration, specified as Kirił Budanow? Do you think he's inactive a CIA asset? In the past, he was controlled by the CIA. Is she inactive that resource?
– I didn't announcement there was any break-up. The goal of all intelligence officer, regardless of what interview we are talking about – whether it will be a Polish, Ukrainian, British or American interview – is to make relationships and friendly relations. It's about individual connections. They can be utilized for equally individual purposes. They may be part of what can no longer be described as actual friendship. However, in these 4 years friendships may have been established. Budanov is surely susceptible to American influence, CIA influence. There is evidence that the CIA is pushing its own plans in Ukraine in any cases, not necessarily related to Donald Trump's plans.
The CIA doesn't want peace.
Does that mean the CIA can block the peace agreement promoted by Donald Trump?
Yes. However, the peace agreement in Donald Trump's version is not acceptable to Russia. I think everyone should understand. Vladimir Putin since 14 June 2024 very clearly defines the Russian conditions for ending this war. It is not just about Ukraine's military resignation from Crimea, Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhia and Kherson. First of all, the point is that NATO troops and all NATO should stay distant from Ukraine. Ukraine could not participate in NATO's next military exercises without agreement with Russia and its consent. The rights of the Russian-speaking population should be completely restored, as should the Orthodox Church. This is not a single postulate. Nor is it just the territory. Those in the West who claim to be active in any territorial claim simply do not realize the problem. Obtaining the territory is simply a means to accomplish the goal, not the goal itself.
Burning money in the Ukrainian oven
What about American economical interests in Ukraine? For example, we have late heard that Ronald Lauder has received concessions and permits to extract lithium in this country. Do you think there is inactive a group of oligarchs in the United States planning to do business there?
– I'm certain they'd like to do business there. However, this is hard for them by the Russians, following Sum, Poltava, Kharkiv, Kherson, Zaporozh. The more areas Russia takes, the little opportunities Ukraine will gotta attract abroad investments. As you most likely know, Russia will gladly engage in the improvement and reconstruction of the remains of Ukraine, which it will occupy after the end of the war. Then these abroad investors will have a cooperative partner in Russia. Today, however, those who invest in the hope of preserving their property rights to any land or resources in Zaporozh, the Donetsk region or the Kherson region may as well burn all their savings in front of the house. It would have a akin value. You know, I don't believe this war will end by negotiation. It will end with military means.
There will be no truce
No ceasefire?
– It won't be. The truce is unacceptable to Russia. You know, I'm amazed at the image of Russia in the planet as a roaring bear, clever, hard and relentless. In my experience, the Russians are a small naive and gullible. They were besides trusting – Putin confirmed it – erstwhile it turned out that they were deceived by Angela Merkel and François Hollande on the first and second Minsk Agreements. The Russians are thus somewhat naive in specified matters. They remind me of an American cartoon character, Charlie Brown. Charlie Brown was lost to a black-haired girl named Lucy. She always called him and urged him to kick the ball she had in her hands. Charlie ran to kick that ball and then she pulled it away, and that 1 flew and fell on his ass. This was akin with Russia and Europe. Europe was like Lucy here: specified a mean, mean small girl. Putin and Russia were like Charlie Brown – trusting and believing in good intentions. So they ran up to that ball and couldn't hit it. I think they've learned since then that Lucy – Europe – cannot be trusted. A fewer weeks ago I had a conversation with Sergei Karaganov, who is the most crucial supporter of Russia's turning distant from Europe and turning east through it. He sees a Europe with which Russia had previously co-existed as a schizophrenic woman, who is besides a mass killer. abruptly they realized that no relation could be built with her. They turned towards China, the improvement of Siberia.
Witkoff and Kushner don't mean much
Indeed. So what about diplomatic initiatives? If we do not believe in the ceasefire, or even in the peace agreement, what is the intent of the efforts made for them by Steve’s Witkoff or Jared Kushner?
– Well, Witkoff and Kushner have access to Trump's ears, but they never had real political power in the United States. You know, during my first conversation with Sergei Riabkov, a Russian diplomat and deputy abroad minister, in December 2023, I remember perfectly well how he complained that the Russians had no 1 to talk to. At the time of Biden's administration there were no channels of communication at a higher diplomatic level between Moscow and Washington. It's very dangerous. The inauguration of Donald Trump's presidency was welcomed by most representatives of the Russian authorities. I think that at least at the very beginning they had large hopes that Trump would be willing to talk and that they could make a mutually beneficial deal with him. However, I believe that there are now more and more doubts as to Donald Trump's credibility. He had many opportunities to make various gestures towards Russia showing the sincerity of the intentions of the United States. It could reconstruct direct air services, reconstruct the open air agreement, He could have returned the property confiscated by Barack Obama. The Russian embassy had any kind of a dove, in agrarian areas in the states of Maryland and around fresh York City, where Russian diplomats could relax and relax on weekends. However, these assets were not returned. Nor does the level of diplomats sent to Moscow indicate that this direction is given priority, or they would send individual crucial and influential to work there. Russian assets are inactive frozen. Nobody defrosted them. So we have a full series of moves that the United States could do, but they didn't. Russia did not respond with any decisive moves. If I were Russians and received a proposal from Washington for a conversation, I would request confirmation of a serious approach to these negotiations, demanding, for example, the abolition of the travel ban to the United States first. If this had not been done, 1 could immediately say that you are not taken seriously. This is even more striking in the context of an attack a fewer weeks ago from December 28 on Vladimir Putin's authoritative residence, in which according to any reports his daughter was to be present. This drone attack was carried out if not entirely, at least partially, by the CIA cooperating with Ukrainian authorities. Ukrainians wouldn't be able to track this residence. It was done with American help. Therefore, we request to halt at this point and ask ourselves if the United States is simply a genuine reliable partner in this situation. If I were to advise president Putin, I would say no; that the United States cannot be trusted. That they should first prove that they are serious about moving forward. Otherwise, only time is wasted.
The Ukrainians are just retreating
Does this mean that without the support of American intelligence, even while maintaining the support of much weaker European intelligence, Would Ukraine gotta quit further military action? Could the Ukrainians proceed to fight without American support?
– Their actions on the front mainly consist of the fact that like behind the wheel of the car – they turn around and drive backwards. That's what Ukraine does. Ukraine has not carried out any offensive operations that would enable it to take over and keep control of any area. You know, she only managed to win a fewer Pyrrus victories. Ukrainians occupied any part of the area for a week or 2 weeks, and were then displaced from it, and many of them died while retreating. Besides, there is no specified thing as a European interview. We have British interview, French interview, German interview or Polish interview. In my experience, which dates back any time, Poland has always had any of the most effective intelligence services, better than British MI6. However, Poles are smart adequate not to tell about it, not to tell everyone how wonderful it is. But in reality, their achievements date back to planet War II, erstwhile Polish intelligence and military personnel acquired Enigma's first encryption device and took the first steps towards breaking its codes. Neither the British nor the French did it. The first were Poles. My point is that we request to find which of the European countries would deal with Ukraine, because, as I mentioned, there is no specified thing as the European Union's intelligence structure. It's like a commission to grow camels has decided to grow a horse.
Kallas at the Paralympics
Well, Ursula von der Leyen announced any time ago a plan to set up a European interview, although, of course, this would be a alternatively hard task for the EU.
– I hope they'll let Kai Kallas take care of it, due to the fact that it brings stupidity to a fresh level. You know, this is like a situation where we have a average Olympics for efficient athletes with certain possibilities. And we have a paralympic for those with physical defects, or limited intelligence, who may participate in it. So if they're going to make an intelligence institution, it would be a para-intelligence service, a kind of para-lympic that Kaja Kallas would fit in.
Deep state
On my way back to the United States, I'd like to ask you a question about the concept deep state. It is rather common today. Is, if we're talking about Ukraine, this 1 deep state is he limited to the CIA, or is he more than that?
– It's more than that. Deep state This is what bureaucracy has done, people who have been in positions for more than 20 years, are in resources Senior Executive Servicea higher authoritative body or Senior Intelligence Service, which is simply a higher intelligence corps. These positions are equivalent to the general or admiral in the army. Their large influence is due to long - word office. These are people who started their work, say, in 1995, at the age of 30, and they are now about 60 years old. They've been in positions for 30 years, and they know how everything works. They can stand up to the president. Now they have the advantage that they gotta deal with Donald Trump and his synthesis of arrogance with ignorance, the deficiency of knowing of how the government works. So they can avoid following his instructions and wishes in various ways.
When the war is over
Could you ask for a forecast of this conflict for 2026? Is it realistic to presume that Ukraine is already so militaryly exhausted that the war can end this year?
– I think it's very likely it could end by August.
So soon?
- Yeah.
Will it end definitely or will there be a fresh escalation? This is simply a very crucial issue for us in Poland. any say that it is possible to escalate it, which means that any European countries can engage in it.
– In fact, European countries are already involved. Poland is besides involved. You already have about 10 1000 Polish soldiers, whom I mention to as mercenaries, and who died during fighting in Ukraine. 10 grand is simply a truly large number. In fact, I am amazed that the families of the fallen do not protest against specified a policy any more. Let's turn this around a small bit, if you don't mind: I have a question for you. possibly you can explain. erstwhile we look back, we can realize any animosities between Poland and Russia, even if Russia is different from the russian Union. It was the Soviets who murdered in the Katyn Forest. But it was Stiepan Bandera and his movement that committed genocide, resulting in 140,000 Poles killed in 1943 and 1944. Why, then, did Poland decide to cooperate with the flags, which were liable for murdering far more Poles than Russians or Soviets? Especially since the present Russians are something another than the Soviets yesterday.
Who will end the conflict?
Well, we have 2 factors here. 1 of them is external. As you most likely know, Poland has been under the control of external factors since 1989 or 1990. The second is internal. Of course, Polish society can be easy manipulated. Until recently, it was adequate to convince us that there was a Russian threat, a danger of an eternal nature. So I think that any external forces have utilized real moods, real emotions existing in Poland, in Polish society. But it's almost over. To be honest, Mr. Larry, I would say that, according to the polls, the vast majority of Poles are even against the financial support of Ukraine. It can be said that a lot has changed since 2022. But let's go back to the United States. I'd like to ask you who makes real decisions there. Imagine that there is simply a real will to end the conflict in Ukraine. Who could do that if we already know it wouldn't be Donald Trump?
– Well, Trump could make that decision, but there is simply a problem. If this were a political agreement between Trump and Putin, it would only be valid for a time erstwhile both of them will live and rule. Most likely Trump will leave his office before Vladimir Putin. This means that erstwhile Trump is gone, the continuation of the agreement will depend on who will be the next president. I am so convinced that Russia will insist on a legally binding agreement to end the war. It would so be a paper requiring ratification by the American Senate, two-thirds of its Senators. This means that we would request votes of 66 or 67 senators to support measures to guarantee peace with Russia. I don't see 67 senators like that right now. We have many, however, who proceed to convince decisively to a possible war against Russia, and peculiarly to sow hatred of Putin. That is why I do not think there can be any agreement. As far as the United States is concerned, I do not see the political will of parliamentarians to conclude this kind of agreement. I think that among those who are addicted to what I call a military-industrial complex, nothing will change in their hearts and minds, even if Russia wins a devastating triumph over Ukraine, which I believe must happen.
Northern Alliance Unreal
What about those who see Russia as a possible ally in the rivalry between the United States and China? I am referring to the concept of "North Soyose" against China.
- No, absolutely not. You know, it was 1 of the factors leading to the current policy of supporting Ukraine against Russia. The first plan was to usage Ukraine as proxy against Russia. After her defeat, Russia was to ask for support to the United States. If she did, we'd be able to usage her as a wedge attacking China. Meanwhile, war and the American consequence to a peculiar military operation produced precisely the other effects. They led to the acceleration and strengthening of the Chinese-Russian alliance. This resulted in Russia and China starting to cooperate actively to make an alternate financial strategy to trade and settle receivables, so as not to be forced to usage the dollar or SWIFT. It is then to be made available to the Global South countries, which will besides start introducing it. The United States believed that they had a monopoly on exerting force on Russia and, of course, on China that they could usage coercion to force them to accept their terms. The effect was precisely the opposite. Their separation from the strategy was accelerated, BRICS reinforced. We saw this a year ago erstwhile Trump announced his duties on China, and Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent believed that this decision could hit China, which could supposedly not live without us, so much they request us. They acted like a man surviving in an illusion who was erstwhile rich, but is no longer; he was an athletics star, but now he is fat and neglected. She has a beautiful wife – a model she uses and insults. And 1 day she tells him she's leaving him. He tells him, "Thank you very much, I appreciated this relationship, but I don't like it anymore. I'm leaving, I have a better offer. This is what the United States does now. erstwhile Bessent and Trump imposed these duties on China, they decided that they would beg to ask: "Please don't do this! Meanwhile, China stated: – All right, no problem. They increased their trade with Asia, increased trade with Africa, with Central America and South America. They besides increased turnover with Europe. Their economy began to grow alternatively of shrinking. And the United States was sitting there and acting like this kid saying, "I'm taking the ball and you'll have nothing to play. In consequence they heard: – No problem, we have adequate balls. We don't request your ball. We live in a time of dramatic economical and political change, a transformation that will bring about a fresh world, which I call multi-node. I call it that due to the fact that the poles are a two-dimensional phenomenon, and here we have multiple nodes that are beyond the control of the United States, both economical and political. Honestly, Ukraine is simply a symptom of this process. The demolition of Ukraine is in a sense the demolition of the old planet order.
Stand on your own feet
Meanwhile, in Poland our political elites are inactive divided into 2 camps. 1 looks at Washington as the primary guarantor of our safety. The second is afraid with Brussels and Berlin, seeing them as specified safety guarantors. If you were an advisor to the Polish Prime Minister, what would you advise him to do?
– I would point out to him the 3rd option: a Poland which is firmly standing on its own feet, capable of defending and not counting on anyone. I think Sikorski is in that first camp, putting everything on the United States. I besides think that the current president is not very on his way with the European Union. So what does he propose? You know, my experience with Poles indicates that you are strong and persistent. Your only problem is the inferiority complex you're suffering from. You have always considered yourselves inferior to the French, Germans or British, while in fact I think you are better than them. You should start to realize this and halt giving in to the French, the British, and especially the Germans. They set a bad example for you. By God, do not be like them! Be independent. I think that Poland should make an alliance with Russia, due to the fact that Poles are very religious, though they are Catholic. The Russians are besides very religious, though their religion is the east Orthodoxy. But both are Christians. any believe in Jesus Christ. You can start with that. Start with the fact that you and they believe and live by the principles that Jesus preached. This will enable your nations to cooperate. I could advise the Polish Prime Minister and the Polish President.
One last question: I feel that in the United States you can inactive preach your beliefs more or little freely. Meanwhile, in Europe we have the case of Colonel Jacques Baud.
- Yeah, I know Jacques.
As you know, it has been sanctioned by the European Union, although it is simply a Swiss citizen. My question, then, is: can independent experts, specified as you, proceed in the United States to express their opinions freely and will this be the case in the future?
– possibly not. You know, the changes that have taken place in the United States have not been as bad as those that have occurred in Europe, but they are heading in the same direction. Even today, any effort to criticize Zionists whom I treat as equal to the Nazis is considered a speech of hatred. We have a movement here that supports killing women and children due to the fact that it claims in 1 of its books that all strangers are Amalekites, and their God told them that all specified can be killed. Forgive me, but I don't want to be a part of this. If anyone has specified faith, specified religion—I am against it. I come from the presumption that God created a man and a woman. That in reality all mankind was created by God. This means that I cannot at my discretion begin to kill God’s creatures, for I will simply presume that I have the right to decide on life and death. Unfortunately, we are now surviving in a time where work is lacking, even limited responsibility. This is due to the fact that people no longer follow the rule that what they do here on Earth will affect their fates after death, that there will come a time of judgment. An highly nihilistic approach dominates, according to which it does not substance what we do. We can do whatever we want, as long as the force allows us to do so. We stopped reasoning about the consequences. That's where we have Jeffrey Epstein and his noisemaker. They besides felt they were allowed everything. We can besides see this from Israel's example of killing more than 70,000 Palestinian civilians, as the Israeli defence Army acknowledged 1 day. We can see this from the example of the United States making a unilateral invasion of Venezuela and its captivating president. We think we have power, so we can do anything. I realise that akin criticism can besides be directed towards Russia. However, I believe that the Russian case is somewhat more nuanced. First of all, due to the fact that the West has done much to provoke her. You know, it's like a football game. 1 footballer pushes the another and the justice doesn't see it. 1 time, the pushed 1 pushes the 1 who started. The justice sees it and pulls out a red card due to the fact that he can't see the culprit of all the confusion.
Maybe this is due to the fact that we lacked a justice in global relations.
– That's right, that's a very good statement.
Thank you.
Matthew Piskorski spoke
