Pegasus was an highly effective tool that helped detect large corruption in a close associate of Donald Tusk and his friend for years, Sławomir Nowak, who created an organized crime group on an global scale. A criminal group that stole, embezzled and destroyed Ukraine's resources and opportunities for development," said erstwhile minister Zbigniew Ziobro at the session of the Sejm's committee of enquiry on the Pegasus surveillance system.
The service detained and led erstwhile Justice Minister and lawyer General Zbigniew Ziobra on Monday to a gathering of the Pegasus Judicial Committee of Inquiry. This is the ninth effort to question a politician who emphasizes that the committee is illegal. He landed at the airport in Warsaw after 10:00. He was detained by the police as shortly as he left the plane he flew from Brussels.
The Pegasus Parliamentary Investigative Committee wanted to interview Ziobra for over a year. Until now, the minister has not attended meetings respective times. In mid-September, the Capital territory Court decided to detain again and forced the ex-minister to bring to the committee's parliamentary meeting.
The politician thinks the commission is illegal. He refers to the Constitutional Court ruling of 10 September last year. The Constitutional Tribunal stated that the resolution of the Sejm on the appointment of the committee was unconstitutional. However, in March, the Sejm adopted a resolution in which it stated that ‘taking into account in the activities of the public authority the decisions of the Constitutional Tribunal issued in violation of the law may be considered a breach of the rule of legalism by those authorities’. Since the adoption of that resolution, the judgments of the Constitutional Tribunal are not published in the diary of Laws.
"State pretend to be a committee"
The erstwhile Minister of Justice requested that his message be presented to the minutes of the Monday gathering at the committee of inquiry. He referred to an article of 148 couples. 2 Code of Criminal Procedure.
However, he was interrupted by the chief of the board, Magdalena Sroka, who concluded that “free speech is not a free speech.” The MS Ex-Chief pointed out that he was requesting a statement, not a free speech.
– I'm not asking for a free speech, I'm asking for my right. If you are pretending to be a committee of inquiry, then the law on the committee of enquiry states that any witness who stands before it may request, on the basis of the provisions of the Code of Criminal Procedure, a message of his or her essential legal interest to the minutes, and I would like to usage this formula. He justified it.
However, Magpie stressed that the committee was working under the provisions of the Law on the Investigative Commission. – In those matters which the law does not regulate, we mention to the Code of Criminal Procedure. You have the right to talk freely before the committee of enquiry as a witness. She said. However, he pointed out that the free expression “cannot be freely”.
Pegasus, Giertych and Nowak
Ziobro first applied for the exclusion of all committee members, after which, erstwhile he was informed that he could not do so, he requested the exclusion from the gathering of her chief. The proposal went down with all six members of the committees present at the meeting.
– I would like to ask you to exclude [from the sitting] the associate who leads the gathering present and takes the primary work for the way in which this task is organised. Due to the circumstances of the presentation of film, propaganda, organization material, depicting a distorted, lying image of the situation in Poland during the regulation of the United Right and the usage of this body (...) to cultivate primitive propaganda “Ziobro said.
He was asked by committee president Magdalena Magoka (PSL) to make the Pegasus software acquisition thread.
– I was the initiator of this system. Yes, you've come to the right place about my hearing, only at the incorrect time, due to the fact that after your committee has been banned, – he said.
– I would like to explain to you what Pegasus was for (...). Pegasus was an highly effective tool that helped detect large corruption in a close associate of Donald Tusk and his friend for years, Sławomir Nowak, who created an organized crime group on an global scale. The criminal group that stole, embezzled and destroyed Ukraine's means and opportunities for development – said Zbigniew Ziobro. – Pegasus served to detect the actions of people who embezzled Polish assets. The strategy was purchased from the Justice Fund, which I was part of. I'm arrogant of it, and I would do it again. It was utilized to detect global gangs He stressed.
Magdalena Magoka asked if the Pegasus strategy was utilized against Sławomir Nowak. – Yes, I have that knowledge. – confirmed the erstwhile Minister of Justice.
– Another case, Polnord. You heard the man. I heard we were chasing innocent Gierty. The state utilized Pegasus back then. Gierty and the company carried out their business against the law. The authorities concluded that Giertych was a thief who was moving money out of the company – he explained. – Gierty has the right to hatred me due to the fact that I supervised this case – he noted.
– In this subject appeared advanced officials of Vladimir Putin's administration, people from the vicinity of president Putin, people from Russian peculiar services – he added.
The erstwhile head of MS besides said that, according to his knowledge, the Pegasus strategy was utilized in the Polnordu case – a stock-held improvement company, about which it was loud in connection with the prosecution's investigation against lawyer Roman Gierty – presently MP KO. The proceeding afraid actions to the detriment of the company.
Roman Gierty was 1 of 12 people detained in mid-October 2020 in connection with an investigation into the removal and misappropriation of a full of about PLN 92 million from Polnord. The detainees in the case were presented with allegations of misappropriation of the company's funds and of damages to the company in large size, as well as money laundering. In January of this year, the Regional Prosecutor's Office in Lublin dismissed this proceeding; according to the investigators' findings, there was no crime.
– Polish state boldly besides usage modern tools to detect and prevent crimes specified as Pegasus said Ziobro during the meeting.
He stated that although organs specified as the Police or the ABW had doubts about this system, they later changed their minds after a joint discussion. This demonstrates the professionalism of the Polish state – he assessed.
Committee president Magdalena Sroka (PSL) asked Ziobra whether the then head of CBA Ernest Bejda informed him of the negative opinion of the interior safety Agency on the Pegasus system. The erstwhile head of MS did not respond explicitly to this question, but assessed that ABW's first comments stemmed from the deficiency of access to all information.
– The NSA did not have access to the files in particular, it did not have all the materials, information, due to the fact that it was not the owner of this system. The final conclusions (...) of the management of the ABW were that it is simply a strategy which is full safe, consistent with Polish law and should be applied – said ex-minister.
Magpie besides asked if Ziobro knew about the negative opinion of the Police on the legality of the Pegasus system. The erstwhile MS chief replied that he knew about the discussions that yet ended with a affirmative opinion. He stated that 1 negative opinion had reached him, but is not certain if the Police – he learned about the doubts of this body after the fact.
– I had information that there was a discussion going on that there was an exchange of views. Bogdan Świętczkowski told me about this. (...) This is the best evidence of the professionalism of the Polish state, that there is simply a debate between individual bodies, whether the tool is good or not. I personally did not participate in specified a debate.... “Ziobro said.
Vice-President Tomasz Trela (Lewica) asked Zbigniew Ziobra (PiS) whether he had made a "individual decision" to allocate PLN 25 million from the Justice Fund to acquisition Pegasus software, being a minister of justice to this Fund.
Ziobro stressed that the decision in specified cases was made by the then Deputy Chief of the Ministry Michał Woś, who, however, knew his directional will in this regard. He added that he had Wosi verify the legal anticipation of transferring funds from the FS. – The Minister made specified an assessment and made decisions which I consider to be full legal and would make the same decisions (...). If I made specified decisions, I would make identical decisions with certainty, 100% “Ziobro stressed.
Source: PAP
RoM
