Conversation with Constantin von Hoffmeister
I wanted to talk present about a small more philosophical issues on your book about esoteric Trumpism. Let us look at Trump's future presidency through the prism of German thinkers and philosophers. Let's start with Oswald Spengler. How would you specify Trumpism as a certain political phenomenon from the point of view of Spengler's views on the cyclicalness of civilization?
– Oswald Spengler was a celebrated German philosopher. He wrote the book Twilight of the West in 1920, which was over 100 years ago. In the Twilight of the West, he predicted the collapse of our civilization. This fall is right in front of our eyes erstwhile we look at trans propaganda, LGBTQ+ madness, Black Lives substance riots, Antifa attacks, and the general breakdown of law and order in most western countries due to mass, to a large degree nothing limited immigration. That's actually very interesting, due to the fact that Spengler predicted it in 1920. erstwhile we look at our current situation, we could actually say that Spengler himself lived from our point of view in rather average times. In his opinion, however, they were completely ill. That's why he wrote the book Twilight of the West. The West is simply a Faustian civilization, striving to transcend itself and so falling. It's akin to old age. Spengler stated that strong leaders would appear in these times of decline, who would gain support and take power. He calls it Caesar's period. So I'd say Donald Trump is 1 of those characters. Trump is simply a Caesarist figure. He is simply a strong leader who wants to set up a dam for the tide of degeneration. Of course, she is not the only 1 of this type. In Russia, for example, we can mention Putin in this context. Another example is Viktor Orbán in Hungary. In various Western countries, populist leaders come to power, but of course – regardless of what we think – the United States remains the undisputed leader of the West. I think Donald Trump is simply a Faustian personality, wants to regain control of the West and overcome the decay force. Whether he succeeds or not, we will find out. However, I believe that Trump should be viewed as more than a specified human being – it is simply a tool of History. Let me remind you, there was an assassination on him in July. He failed. Later, many people claimed that they would lose the election due to the fact that they would interfere with any manipulation by the Democrats. But that did not happen. Not only did he win the election, he did it, gaining a majority of direct votes. Thus, the vast majority of American citizens clearly anticipate change. They see Trump as a kind of messianic figure, any kind of savior. They believe that he can reverse the destiny of the country and, as he always says, make America large again, return America to its own roots.
In my opinion, referring to Spengler's analysis, we can see here a breakthrough paradigm shift, due to the fact that the Overton window in cultural terms moves to the right. It comes to normalization of the right-wing discourse, which had previously been demonized by the establishment and mainstream. 1 reason here is to decision distant from mainstream media, specified as CNN, NBC, etc., towards social media channels specified as X or Telegram. Today, most likely more people are getting messages from X and from different influencers than CNN. I virtually watched Steve Turley's broadcast a fewer days ago, and he said, for example, that CNN and the broadcasts there have a million viewers, while people like Joe Rogan, for example, are viewed on X by 60 million people, just like Tucker Carlson. All this mass manipulation by mainstream media, which we have been dealing with for decades, ends with the left-liberal agenda, due to the fact that people are truly thirsty for truth, truly want change and are ready for this change. I would even say that in a sense people have succumbed to radicalization, which was evident during Trump's election campaign. At his rallies there were immense crowds that stood around him holding banners with slogans of immediate mass deportation of immigrants. Only recently, specified a message would be considered very radical, and present it appears in the mainstream and – amazingly – most Americans actually identify with it. We'll see what these changes lead to. Returning to Oswald Spengler, I believe Trump is more than just an individual. It is any first element, a tool of almost divine providence, which past has launched to somewhat change the direction in which we are heading.
Oswald Spengler noted the collapse of Western civilization, but this process is gradual. This is simply a slow process due to the fact that it has been over 100 years since Spengler. However, according to any cyclical historiosophy, a fall is inevitable. And that means he can't halt him even the coming of specified a Western Caesar. You think this Trumpist caesarism is something that can halt the fall and dusk of the West, or can it just slow it down?
We have respective different aspects here. Indeed, as you mentioned, Oswald Spengler claimed that the fall is inevitable, as is the inevitable death. Spengler believed in the cyclical explanation of history. He fundamentally claimed that civilizations and cultures match surviving organisms. They are born, grown up, grown up and then age and die. He claimed that cultures transform into civilizations at the age stage, before their death. He considered the concept of civilization to be something alternatively negative, and the concept of culture to be something positive, due to the fact that he maintained that a young organism, full of vitality and health, occurs at the phase of culture. erstwhile it begins to endure from obsessive materialism and become attached to technology, it turns into a civilization that yet dies. I think Spengler was right. But as in nature – any organisms are born, grown up, aged and die, but replaced by another organisms. According to Newtonian physics, the sum of energy is constant. It's not like the energy's going anywhere, is it? So my point is that the death of 1 civilization means that in her place she will be born and will make another. So if the West falls, and it falls, due to the fact that the process of its collapse is already ongoing, I think that a different culture will arise on its ruins. Of course, we do not yet know what culture it will be, but it will surely be a fresh culture. So I'm more of an optimist. any say that something that will fall should sometimes be pushed. So erstwhile the West falls, it will emergence and be replaced by another culture. It will be a culture young, healthy and not as degenerate as the modern West. Of course, it is impossible to foretell precisely what it will be like. Let's hope he's something sublime. I think there's specified potential.
Let's specify what the West is. For example, Alain de Benoist claims that American civilization is something completely separate from European civilization. However, most contemporary authors identify Western civilization with the alleged North Atlantic region which besides includes the European Union, i.e. recognise Western Europe and the United States as 1 entity. From this point of view, do you consider Trump to be Western Caesar or American Caesar?
– I completely disagree with Alain de Benoist due to the fact that I do not consider America a culture or a civilization separate from Europe. I think it is the same civilization, and even culture, even for the apparent reason that the United States of America was founded by Europeans, as a European-style republic referring to Greek, Roman and European principles. They later strayed from this road, but Europe did the same. Therefore, in my view, the claim that America has nothing to do with Europe is entirely false. I believe that America should be considered a European country, being part of a European civilization which, as we have said, is in a state of decay. It's not just America. Western Europe is in a akin state. any say that everything is America's fault, that America launched it, that it was fundamentally America that destroyed Europe. I think this is simply a false idea, due to the fact that we see how deep Western Europe is in decay all day. Europe follows its own trajectory of collapse. And it will fall, even without American influence. It can besides be said that many of the ideas that led to the decomposition and degeneration of the United States and Western Europe come primarily from Western Europe, for example Frankfurt School. That's why it's hard to justice where it all started and who's responsible. Besides, it would be a simplification to point a finger at circumstantial entities.
I think it's all a general, nonsubjective process. Trump is primarily the American president, so he's talking about making America large again. The perfect script is that America will cut itself off from its armed brawls, in which it is presently active worldwide, inactive playing the function of a global policeman. From what Trump said and from his actions during the erstwhile presidential term, I conclude that he truly would like America to quit its imperialist function and focus more on interior problems. These include, for example, the issue of sealing borders, deporting illegal immigrants, refurbishing existing and building fresh infrastructure.
Besides, he will have in his administration a man like Elon Musk, who plans to colonize Mars. It seems to me that Trump powerfully supports this plan. So we're going to have any kind of archeofuture administration. Trump always said we should start re-establishing monuments to large American heroes. And erstwhile he talks about large Americans, I don't think he means people like George Floyd. He most likely speaks of the large leaders of the past, who should be worshiped again, after he reigned the iconoclasm of the left, who overturned all the heroes, trying to paint the full American communicative black, depicting the ancestors of the present Americans as fundamentally without exception villains and criminals. It was stressed that they were colonizers, slave owners. The same is happening in Western Europe. In Western Europe, our ancestors are demonized, who allegedly were fascists, Nazis and, of course, besides imperialists, colonizers, etc. This phenomenon is mostly Western. If Trump chooses a more isolating direction, if he concentrates on interior affairs and removes America from the global arena, America will be able to become 1 of the poles or 1 of the civilizations among the fewer existing within the multipolar order.
Respecting another civilizations?
– Respecting another civilization and not trying to impose on others the remainder of the planet their way of life, liberalism, democracy, as it has done for decades. America promotes a liberal ideology that has gained hegemonic position in the United States and throughout the West. The West respects no social or political strategy that would be incompatible with its own standards, namely gay rights, feminism, liberalism, uncontrolled immigration, the elimination of borders, deficiency of roots, designation of identity as something bad, etc. The problem is, then, that, as the Russian philosopher Alexander Dugin rightly pointed out, the West is inactive imperialistic and inactive tries not only to export these values, but besides to force their adherence by another civilizations and cultures. He leads wars all over the world, bombards various countries by preaching that he carries democracy to them. He is not curious in whether or not they want democracy. If Trump turns out to be the president who will open up a fresh era of isolationism in American history, it will benefit America itself due to the fact that it will be able to devote its resources to rebuilding its own economy and its own infrastructure. It would besides be beneficial for the world, due to the fact that we would have less wars, less conflicts of arms due to the fact that exports of liberal ideology would cease. America can be liberal and democratic. However, it should halt imposing its worldview on others, due to the fact that everyone, all civilization, all culture should have the right to adhere to their own traditions and their own cultural characteristics.
I think Donald Trump is the American president who is primarily curious in America. But at the same time – returning to your question for a while – I think that he is besides the president of the West, due to the fact that the United States is inactive the most powerful country in the West and has the top influence in the West. We can so deal with America more conventional and more conservative thanks to the Trump administration and subsequent MAGA administrations (Make America large Again) that will follow, due to the fact that possibly the next president will be J. D. Vance, who knows. I think it will origin a domino effect besides in Western Europe, where American influences are immense and many patriotic forces, specified as the alternate for Germany, are looking for affirmative inspiration in America. I believe that Trump and the Trumpist movement can be specified an inspiration, and hopefully not only an inspiration, but besides an impulse in political terms. Take the example of what happened in Romania.
The Romanian establishment has stripped the triumph of a patriotic presidential candidate, which in itself is embarrassing. possibly the Trump administration could start imposing sanctions on those European countries and those European governments that are utilizing undemocratic repression against patriotic forces. After all, the current Biden administration or another liberal administrations always impose sanctions on countries that do not respect what they consider democratic procedures. Of course, we all realize that there are double standards here. Therefore, sanctioned and punished are those countries that do not follow the way of liberalism. For example, there were completely legal elections in Georgia, which are not recognized by almost anyone in the European Union, just due to the fact that the people they wanted were not elected. The same, of course, happened in Romania. erstwhile something like this happens, they're completely not curious in democracy. So possibly the future Trump administration can exert any political force on these countries, thus supporting practically patriotic forces?
Could you mention to Trump's presidency and its phenomenon from a Hegel perspective?
– Yes, if we are talking about Heglu, he always spoke about the Spirit of the world. This Spirit manifests in different nations. Hegel so supported cultural diversity alternatively than global monoculture, due to the fact that the Spirit of the world, in order to make and yet accomplish the goal of saving humanity, needs multiplicity, as different nations have different paths of improvement and no 1 knows which of these paths is right. It is so crucial to have many alternate routes leading possibly to 1 goal. However, we should give all culture the chance to make on its own terms. I believe that Donald Trump is doing something like this with his populist project, in which he addresses the people straight and takes the lead. In my opinion, there is no division into left and right now. This division went into past and we now have a division of the people versus the establishment. So we have, on the 1 hand, populist leaders fighting for the rights of the people and, on the another hand, well-established elites who are actually fighting only for their own rights, for the anticipation of further enrichment. Elites are completely eradicated, cosmopolitan. So it is not that the American elite or the European elite is behind everything. The elite travels around the planet and does not care about the destiny of its own citizens, its own peoples. This is clearly seen in the form of its policies, both in the United States and in Western Europe, where it floods its own countries with a wave of immigration which is completely incompatible with Western civilization. At the same time, this is detrimental to the economy. It doesn't make any sense. For this reason, it is crucial that we support the imagination proposed by Donald Trump, which is to admit as the superior will of the people.
We know that many of Trump's closest associates, specified as Elon Musk, have a good cognition of philosophical literature. Musk late admitted unless he read Spengler. Earlier, he said that he had read Dugin, for example.
– Yes, he besides admitted that he read Ernst Jünger.
Do you think these people at the ideological level are aware of what is happening, or are they simply tools of history, destiny, unaware of what they do?
– I think they realize – at least any of them – what is happening. We know that any have read a certain part of the literature, which shows that they are curious in the evolution of the West, the trajectory of the West. Another specified individual is, for example, Steve Bannon, a very influential man in Trump's first administration. Initially, he was an advisor at the White home and inactive has considerable influence. He's a large fan of Julius Evola. And Evola was an Italian traditionalist philosopher who emphasized the importance of tradition in all society, and besides coined the expression “the riding of a tiger”. He claimed that the West is in a state of decay, but we should not become desperate, but decently realize our time and usage it as best we can. The same could be said about Elon Musk. J. D. Vance himself is referred to as a liberal. Actually, he totally rejects the liberal paradigm. This is evident besides in his book Elegia for Bidoks, which he primarily devoted to the destiny of the white working class in the United States, in the Rzeza Belt, in the Appalachach. We besides have J. D. Vance's relation with Peter Thiel of Silicon Valley. Thiel is simply a friend of Curtis Yarvin. J. D. Vance knows him, too. Yarvin is simply a very crucial iconic figure of the fresh Right in the United States. He is the author of a number of books, runs a blog on Substack, where much is said about the threats to democracy. He himself is her opponent and even supports the monarchy. He thinks it would be the perfect system. From what I have read, it has a large influence, especially in the Silicon Valley environments, but besides Peter Thiel or J. D. Vance. Which is why I think at least any of the crucial people in this crew know precisely what's going on. They're truly well educated. In my opinion, in the future administration, they will effort to put any of their ideas into practice, with instruments different from now on.
After the Trump administration takes over, can it start exporting Trumpism to another countries? I mean mainly European countries, due to the fact that there are any analogies here, and the United States seems to be a model for the full Western world. After the change of administration may consequence in the promotion of Trumpism, of course not in a way as aggressive as the Democrats promoted globalisation. What do you think?
- Yes, I think it's already happening. I think Romania is the best example here. Georgescu is simply a Trump-like character. He besides gained popularity thanks to TikTok, social media. The things he said were mostly consistent with Trump's statements. besides the phenomenon of focusing on 1 person, the charism of this individual is very akin to Trump's case. I think Georgescu is the best example of copying Trump's phenomenon in Europe. Sometimes we besides see this in another Western European countries. So we have specified charismatic individuals, well presented and saying interesting things. I think that's what people expect. In the parties of the establishment we inactive have the same old faces. They're not very charismatic faces, they don't say anything interesting. In Germany, for example, we have Alice Weidel of AfD. She late posted on her X-video profile, which spread like an excellent viral. He's got 2 million hits already. She recorded them in the Bundestag. There was a journey from German advanced school. A group of students with a teacher visited the Bundestag. Students saw Weidel and were highly excited. Everyone wanted to make a selfie with her. She was very happy about that, of course. But in the background you can hear a teacher who abruptly got very angry and depressed. He started telling them to keep going, that they weren't allowed to walk here and do it so they wouldn't stop. The teacher was clearly negative towards Weidel – it's obvious. She kept talking to the students, just ignoring that teacher. yet everyone took a image with her. This means that it can scope people due to the fact that it is besides 1 of those charismatic personalities that can express people's desires. I think this kind of personality is capable of embodying people's real needs. I believe that this can besides be described as a phenomenon of Trumpism, and it seems to be increasingly seen throughout the West.
Is the hazard of a deep state taking over or influencing this administration even little than in its first term? Trump will be more sovereign in his decisions?
– I think the hazard is lower in the case of the second administration, due to the fact that it now has first word experience. I think he's learned a lesson, especially about deep state infiltration and the people on his squad who betrayed him. That's why I think he's much more careful now. He besides has quite a few good people in his future administration, specified as Tulsi Gabbard, Robert Kennedy Jr, Elon Musk and many others. I think it'll aid him avoid a repeat from the first administration erstwhile it comes to infiltration. So I'm moderately optimistic. I don't think there's going to be any full return to his politics. Let's hope I'm right.
Thank you for talking to me. We urge order in Arktos Media book Esoteric Trumpism.
– Thank you.
Matthew Piskorski spoke
Constantin von Hoffmeister is the editor-in-chief of Arktos Media. Recently, a book was published. Esoteric Trumpism (2014), which can be ordered at arktos.com.
Think Poland, No. 3-4 (19-26.01.2025)
