Conversation with Radwan Loutfi, chargé d’affaires of the Syrian Embassy in Poland. Agnieszka Piwar and Sandra Malazi talk on behalf of the weekly “Think Poland”.
Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much for agreeing to meet and talk with us.
– I would like to welcome you to the Syrian embassy. It has been a long time since individual interviewed individual from us, or in any nonsubjective way presented the situation in Syria. That's why you're most welcome here.
The eleventh year of the Syrian War passes. What is the current balance of harm and loss, including fatalities?
– I can only say that these 11 years were terrible for Syria. Unfortunately, at the moment, I have no authoritative data on losses. As for the victims, there's quite a few calculations from different sides. These calculations are highly volatile. any talk of 2 100 thousand, others 3 100 thousand, or even 4 100 1000 victims. These numbers are besides advanced even if we talk about a thousand. At 1 point, erstwhile alleged peaceful demonstrations failed to destabilise the government, they escalated the situation to have a reason to increase force on the Syrian government on the planet stage. Therefore, with respect to the provision of authoritative victim data, the government organization does not want to enter this "number game". any say 50 once, after an hr they say 100, then say 200 – without any transparency and giving the sources behind this information. Of course, we're considering these numbers due to the fact that they're Syrians. However, it is crucial to know that all number you can hear is always reinforced to show greater losses. The point is to put more force on our government.
So the numbers we can hear in the media aren't reliable?
- Yeah. These figures are not nonsubjective due to the fact that they are given by various abroad organisations, specified as the Syrian Human Rights Observatory based in the UK. Meanwhile, they cannot know the real numbers due to the fact that it is impossible for them to have specified detailed data from the conflict zone. In general, there is media manipulation, which is that everything those organizations say is recognized and taken as truth, while everything the Syrian government says is demonized and rejected.
When it comes to harm to infrastructure – homes, roads, hospitals, etc. – these are undeniably immense but presently immeasurable damages. These are cases that require careful analysis and peculiar investigation. To do that, you'd gotta go around Syria and then you'd gotta calculate the damage. However, the most crucial thing we request to say is that most of these harm is not caused by the Syrian army but by terrorists themselves and by the alleged Syrian average opposition, financed and armed to defeat the Syrian army. They were supported by external forces and supplied with weapons from all over the world. I think possibly even the arsenal of east European countries was utilized here.
How did this weapon get to Syria?
– It was indirectly sold by 3rd parties, but the intended destination was Syria. More than 95 percent of this weapon went to Syria straight through Turkey. But not just guns. More than 150 000 terrorists from over 100 countries of the planet have arrived in Syria from Turkey. Turkey trained them on arrival and sent them to the country [Syria – ed.]. We inactive have militias in any areas. For example, groups specified as the ‘Islamic Turkestan Party’ proceed to operate in northwestern Syria, in regions specified as Idlib. The leadership of Al-Nusra, an organization recognised by the UN, and even by the US and the EU as a terrorist organisation, is there.
You mentioned media manipulation. Who funds the media that gives false information about the situation in Syria?
– It is clear that Western countries, including the United Kingdom, France and the United States, as well as any of the richest countries in the Arabian Peninsula are backing specified manipulations.
Are there presently abroad correspondents in Syria, controlled by the Syrian government?
– If anyone wants to come and describe what they see in Syria, we let them in. However, our experience shows that many journalists assure that erstwhile they come to the place they will only describe what is happening, and then after leaving their articles show something completely different than they saw. any of them even later claimed that these differences were not due to what they wrote in their reports, but alternatively to modifications made by their editorial offices, which did not accept these messages. I'm not talking about 100 percent of Western media, due to the fact that evidently not all of them are. However, these nonsubjective ones are small and small they can do, due to the fact that the loudest ones are media specified as CNN, BBC or France24. These are the main information networks that people perceive to and which messages form the opinions of the masses.
For example, a conspirator will choice a place behind a closed street, movie it for a fewer seconds and send it to the media. Even erstwhile it comes to photos, they frequently do it in the studio utilizing peculiar effects to say they were there and saw it. And so it was at first, but in time we discovered the truth. So they went to a higher level and started utilizing people on the ground to start shooting. abroad agitators utilized snipers to shoot both sides—to the opposition and to the Syrian army. Why? To force the army to defend themselves and say, “Look how many people have died!” But killed by whom, by whose bullets?
So they shoot to force the Syrian army to respond and thus rise the global alarm that there is force and human rights are being violated?
– That's how they effort to make things worse. Meanwhile, Syrian government forces only want stableness and security. All these global positions are influenced by the United States and Europe. Of course, erstwhile we talk about Europe, we mean France and the United Kingdom, due to the fact that these are the main European countries. All another European countries must follow this line and present a single position.
What does it look like outside the Euro-Atlantic Agreement?
– any arabian countries usage different methods of blackmail. This is as follows: the country in question comes to the arabian League and says that Syrian membership must be suspended. respective arabian countries usage veto law and say they disagree and cannot accept it. Then they force the decision by lobbying or utilizing threats. Generally, erstwhile it comes to making decisions – whether in the arabian League or in the UN – everything takes place in the prevailing atmosphere of blackmail. All in order to force the condemnation of the Syrian government and to hold it liable for the crisis. another countries are put under force – first they are promised any aid or support, and erstwhile it does not result, then circumstantial threats are applied. And no 1 is asking a neutral body to analyse to find who is truly liable for the Syrian crisis.
Such an example, erstwhile no 1 asked about the investigation or evidence, was the events that were expected to take place on April 4, 2017 in the town of Chan Szajchun, in the then controlled rebel state of Idlib in north-west Syria. The media then distributed recordings of dozens of victims – mostly children. And it was announced that they were victims of a chemical attack by the Syrian army. Video material that revolved around the planet was made available by the “White Helmets”. Without asking apparent questions – why would president Asad kill the children of his own nation? What kind of business would he have? – The world's public accepted the only version of the events. Thus, the Pentagon had a ready-made excuse to drop bombs on the base of the Syrian Air Force Shayrat (where, according to the Americans, the Syrians were to launch an attack). Ironically, the proof of mystification is found on these recordings. To exposure a lie, it was adequate to scope out to the encyclopedia and learn the basic definition of sarin. Sarin poisoning causes the following symptoms: convulsions, spasms, uncontrolled defecation, salivation, excessive sweating, severe pain and an expanding sense of fear. On the another hand, the symptoms we can see in the victims of the alleged chemical attack completely contradict this. The children seen on the recordings are not bent out of pain, but lie in natural pose; they have dense breath, but behave calmly, do not shout and do not cry; their clothes and underwear are clean. So here we have an example of apparent mating. How can specified manipulation be addressed? How do you fight these lies?
– I would like to shed light on the measures taken against Syria to demonise Syrians and Syrian information. All Syrian satellite programs were disabled, meaning Syrians surviving abroad were deprived of the chance to watch Syrian television. Why? This is explained by the fact that the Syrian media cannot be allowed to deceive people with their lies. Now we can only watch Syrian media online. For our part, we effort to do the best we can. We're trying to invitation journalists and experts to tell the truth, but if they're lying, who's gonna prove to them that their lies are lies? They fool people, so everything depends on how smart individual is to believe in their lies or not to believe. If I take a tiny step towards knowing the truth, I'm certain I'll find it. But they're counting on the superficiality of people not to go deeper into the problem. After all, more than 90 percent of people are not active in politics. And they know how to play on their emotions, so they give them images of poor, killed children that trigger these emotions.
Such sacrifices are tragic and would, of course, be condemned primarily by us due to the fact that they are our citizens. But we didn't, and you should be looking for culprits among those who benefit from these deaths. There is simply a simple regulation in forensics that if you want to start any criminal investigation, first check who is the beneficiary, who can benefit most from these activities. And this individual is the prime suspect.
In Poland we have this saying: «real friends are met in poverty». What countries could Syria have hoped for in fresh years?
– In Syria, too, we have a akin saying that a actual friend is 1 who stands by you in times of misery. If you look at the planet scene, you will see that these countries that are far from the United States' sphere of influence, and effort to be more or little politically independent, standing behind Syria. frequently mentioned Russia was 1 of the countries that not only stood behind Syria, but besides defended and supplied Syria. Russia and Iran are the 2 biggest countries that support Syria and aid us. Like India and Pakistan. The Syrian position besides supports China, but not at these points to engage militarily or economically. Syria is besides supported by many arabian countries, specified as Algeria or Lebanon, but only verbally. The general regulation is that if you are far from the American region and are independent, then you can be impartial about Syria. And you can have conversations with Syria. But if you are under American influence or an alliance with the United States, you must surrender any of your sovereignty. But thank God we inactive have many countries on our side. If you look at the United Nations, more than a 100 countries realize Syria.
A fewer years ago, a BBC writer interviewed the president of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko. erstwhile asked how Syrian president Bashar al-Assad felt, Lukashenko replied: «Great! We've seen each another many times. If you talked to him, you'd surely like him. Absolutely a European civilized man». Moreover, the Belarusian leader firmly pointed out errors in Western European abroad policy and warned against the tragic consequences of supporting terrorists destroying Syria and another mediate East countries. How are Syrian-Belarusian relations today?
"Belarus is, of course, 1 of the countries with which we have the best relations, practically in all area. 2 months ago, even respective meetings of representatives of Syria and Belarus took place in both countries. I personally visited Belarus twice.
At the office of the Syrian embassy in Warsaw, there were erstwhile press conferences attended by crucial Syrian representatives. Delegates of Syrian chambers of commerce and economics encouraged Polish counterparts to cooperate in rebuilding Syria. In return for their help, Syrians offered Poles the benefits of natural resources specified as oil. Interestingly, the Syrian side clearly emphasized that it appreciates Poles for deficiency of colonial past, experience in rebuilding their own state, or construction of infrastructure in the mediate East in the times of the Polish People's Republic, which is remembered in arabian countries until today. abruptly the subject went silent and our relation was frozen. Why didn't it work out?
– It's very simple. Like I said before, as long as you're distant from the center of the American sphere of influence, you can be independent in your national decisions. We, of course, respect the decisions made by the Polish government. Poland's leadership can decide what it does, and we cannot criticize these decisions or interfere in their interior affairs. But just as the Lords are now considering this, so we are besides wondering, due to the fact that in Syria we love Poland. If you ask anyone on the Syrian street about Poland, everyone will say that it is simply a beautiful country, with wonderful people and we have good relations with Poles. individual will say that his uncle has Polka's wife and another will say that he has cousins in Poland. We have always had the best memories and thoughts related to Poland, and that is inactive the case today.
However, erstwhile we ask our friends from Poland to rise the level of cooperation with Syria, they answer that they will do their best, but they must wait for the right moment. And now in many areas they can do nothing due to the fact that they are engaged in fresh actions against Syria, for example due to human rights. Thus, under different pretexts, they argue that they must first see any political improvement in Syria. Meanwhile, we request real help, not individual to dictate terms. Poland is not ready due to the fact that it is part of European policy. all time we talk to individual about Syria in this way, there is no Polish policy, there is no Czech policy, there is no Slovak, Hungarian, German or even French policy. There's only European politics. And European Union policy goes hand-in-hand with United States policy and cannot say anything else.
The question should be asked: are European politicians capable or ready to talk outside the consensus? I don't think so, due to the fact that all politician of this kind makes a balance of the consequences of their decisions. For example, by beginning channels of cooperation with Syria, they would exposure themselves to besides much problem and besides much attack would come from their own allies. I think even if they want to keep their best relation with Syria, they can't. And we can realize that. But can we accept that? That's another question.
Syria belongs to the following global organisations: UN, arabian League (AL), Panaman Free Trade region (GAFTA), Organisation of arabian Oil Exporting Countries (OAPEC), global Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), planet Bank (WB), global Monetary Fund (IMF), muslim improvement Bank (IDB). Who helped Syria and who turned away?
- Simple answer. due to the fact that all these organizations are under the control of the United States. no of them are behind Syria. Even the UN, which Syria is simply a associate of. If they could remove our membership from the UN, including UNICEF or UNESCO, they would, but they can't. Syria has a very loud voice there. We talk and act professionally due to the fact that we know the statute of the organization. We know what we can and erstwhile we can and erstwhile we can and what they can and cannot. Our diplomacy and leadership at the right time calculates everything about the UN, so no 1 could defeat Syria here.
But erstwhile it comes to money, it's all over the United States. all dollar you have in your pocket is controlled by the US. Even if you want to pay with your credit card, it has to go to fresh York first. All these organizations are the tools of American politics. Their help, loans, loans, whatever they have. And even erstwhile we are talking about the European Union or any European financial institutions, that is precisely the same. due to the fact that these are all policy tools. If politics is on your side, then you have all the doors open and you can get everything. Otherwise, they'll close everything. If they could take our air, they would, too.
Syria has tremendous natural resources. Are valuable resources presently helping Syrian people to rebuild the state?
– Before the crisis, Syria was self-sufficient. We produced about 400,000 barrels of oil a day, of which 150-200 1000 went to home consumption. We spent the remaining barrels on export and at the time supported the Syrian budget. As far as Syrian gas is concerned, we utilized it in our power plants for interior use. Syria was number 10 on cotton exports worldwide and number 5 in olive and olive oil production. possibly only 10 percent of this production was utilized on the local market. The remainder went to export. Syrian extra virgin oil is 1 of the best in the world. Businessmen from another countries – specified as Italy or Spain – imported Syrian oil, mixed it with another and sold it as Italian or Spanish. Everything has changed since the crisis, due to the fact that many of our deposits have been under abroad control. Terrorist organizations specified as ISIS and Al-Nusra, which are products of US policy failure, have contributed to this. For example, Al-Nusra began to occupy oil deposits to take distant the Syrian government's origin of income. Terrorists from this organization themselves began exporting our oil through Turkey, providing themselves with a origin of income. In turn, terrorists from Daesh [ISIS, the alleged muslim State – ed.] entered the town of Rakka nad Euphrates, which established the capital of their fictional caliphate.
The United States – who had previously utilized Daesh and Al-Nusra as an excuse to intervene – felt that they should personally enter Syria. And they entered from the borders of Jordan and Iraq, and then close the city of At Tanf, located at the intersection of these borders, formed their first American bases on Syrian soil. They are logistical points, i.e. there is no oil there, but there is simply a road connecting Syria, Iraq and Jordan, which leads to Gulf states, including Saudi Arabia. So, after entering, the Americans occupied a very crucial logistical area in Syria. They then established, according to various estimates, about 25-30 bases at oil and gas sites in the northeast of Syria. Of course, the Americans besides support the Kurds and certain Syrian arabian communities associated with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Iraq. And they established them as a local military branch of their political administration.
So first there was Al-Nusra, then Daesh, and then the Americans came personally and their tools specified as the Kurds of QSD, i.e. "Syrian Democratic Forces" [a coalition of Kurdish and arabian militants supported by the United States – ed.]. Of course, they besides support them in controlling oil deposits, which they then export through Iraq and sale to benefit from this. We recognise these places as occupied lands, while US soldiers present there (estimated to be between a 1000 and 3 1000 of them) we respect as occupiers. And why are the Americans inactive there? As they say, they're here to fight the remains of Daesh. However, Americans, if they wanted to, they could finish them off in 3 days. So why don't they? due to the fact that they request an excuse to stay there. Thus, the Syrian land has valuable resources, but most are not in our hands. However, those resources that we have under control – specified as phosphates or olive oil – cannot be exported. We encounter many problems due to sanctions.
It is terrible that the Syrians who have experienced the war are besides being hit by global sanctions. Is that even legal?
– No 1 can buy anything from Syria. Exports from Syria are banned. Import to Syria is prohibited. All we have is access to oil deposits that give 30,000 to 40,000 barrels a day, which is nothing. And for this reason Syria must import oil, but due to sanctions no 1 can export oil to Syria. Iran is simply a country that can supply Syria with 1 million tons of tanker. And frequently the Iranians do. Sometimes any Kurds sale illegal minimum quantities and bring them to national refineries, but that's not helpful, and we can't trust on that. another oil producing countries cannot sale due to the fact that they will be subject to US and European sanctions.
When it comes to sanctions, we are against the terminology of global sanctions. There are no global sanctions, due to the fact that if they are to be global sanctions, they must pass through the UN safety Council. Meanwhile, all these sanctions are the work of the United States and the European Union, which is why they are illegal. In 2019, the United States legislature voted the alleged "Caesar Act" [Civil civilian Protection Act in Syria – ed.]. And in this way, the Americans have imposed sanctions on everyone who cooperates with Syria. Since then, any cooperation with Syria has been completely prohibited. Anyone who breaks out will be on the U.S. blacklist. What does that mean? For example, you won't get an American visa, your bank account will be blocked, and your life will be hell. And due to these harsh punishments, people forget Syria. Even if individual breaks out and finds a way to cooperate indirectly with Syria, then we hear that the United States Department of Commerce has imposed sanctions on this or that. The game against Syria was never pure.
Mr. Ambassador, there have been many lies and manipulations about the conflict in Syria. delight explain to our Readers how this war actually happened? Who's liable for her? Who is the main instigator and sponsor of this war?
– I will begin by quoting a meaningful quote from 2011. In an interview with the French tv station LCP, erstwhile French abroad Minister Roland Dumas said: «Two years before the conflict in Syria I was in England on another matters. I met with leading British officials who told me they were preparing something in Syria. It was in Britain, not America. Britain organized an invasion of the rebels into Syria. They even asked me, although I was no longer a abroad minister, if I wanted to participate. Of course I refused, I said that I am French, that I am not curious in». Dumas added: «This operation has a long history. It was prepared, thoughtful and planned... In the region, it is crucial to know that this Syrian government has a very anti-Israeli position. The erstwhile Prime Minister of Israel told me: “We will effort to work with our neighbours, but those who disagree with us will be destroyed.”
This indicates that the plan has been established before. The central point of all this was Turkey, due to the fact that no 1 without Turkey could do anything. Of course, as I said earlier, the benefits of this situation are enjoyed by the United States, which besides wants to weaken Russia's position. Let's go back in time. Americans came to Europe, the European Union was created, NATO expanded. Then the war began in Iraq, they pushed Saddam Hussein into the war with Kuwait, etc. Then came the time for the alleged arabian Spring to remove all—as they called it—the “dictive regime”. They started with Tunisia, then Libya, Jordan, Egypt. And they yet came to Syria. In Tunisia, it went very easy and the president gave up power. It was easy in Libya, too, but what's going on out there now? 11 years after Gaddafi's death, there are riots there due to the fact that 6 million Libyans cannot communicate with each other. Egypt, due to its peculiar relation with Israel and Jordan, must follow their line.
American General Wesley Clark, erstwhile NATO military commander in Europe, said in a celebrated 2007 interview: «About 10 days after the 9/11 attacks, I went to the Pentagon. I saw Secretary of defence Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Paul Wolfowitz. I went downstairs to see people in the combined command post. 1 of the generals came up to me and said he needed to talk to me. He told me, “We just made a decision that we would start a war on Iraq.” It was about 20 September. I asked: “Are we going to war with Iraq? Why?’ He replied, “I don’t know, possibly they don’t know what else to do.” I asked, ‘Have any links been found between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda?’ He replied: “No, no, nothing fresh came up, we just decided to attack Iraq. I think we don't know what to do about terrorism, but we have a good army and we can take over countries. If you have a hammer in your hand, all problem seems to be a nail.” A fewer weeks later, I saw him again. At the time, we were bombing Afghanistan. I asked him, "Are we inactive entering Iraq?" He replied, “It is even worse.” He pulled the card he got from the defence Secretariat. And he says it's a note that describes the fact that we'll take over 7 countries in 5 years. Starting with Iraq, via Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and ending with Iran.” Edward Snowden, who is now in Russia, speaks similarly. He confirmed all these stories about Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, and another terrorist organizations; he spoke about how they were prepared by Americans to be the alleged wasp nest; how they were tampering this network by collecting terrorists from all over the world. any in Germany said there were 60,000 possible terrorists, but they don't know precisely where they are. erstwhile the Syrian crisis began, the terrorists began to surface and arrived in Syria, just like that. And it was said that it was very good, due to the fact that now 1 can keep an eye on them, and before that they were invisible; and hope was expressed that they would go to Syria, they would die there, and they would not return. Most of those in Al-Hawl camp – which is under Daesh's control – are visitors from Europe or America, but these countries say they don't want them. It's not like they sent them there to go back now. Bottom line. We believe that what happened, starting with the usage of all these protests, was based on a scenario. The improvement of this full situation was a directed spectacle under their full control.
So what must happen to the crisis being averted and the war in Syria ended?
– In Syria, we reached the point where we started talking to the opposition about the fresh constitution. But there are many Syrians across from us who consult with any outside advisors. erstwhile it came to negotiations, in connection with any point of the constitution, about what Syria should look like, all word had to be negotiated. And even if during the negotiations they agreed to any proposals or changes, then they would leave, talk to their counselors, and erstwhile they returned to the conversation table, they would say veto. This means that Syrians do not negociate with Syrians. That's the problem.
We always say that we are ready for any political situation that would be agreed between Syrians. I mean, under the patronage of the Syrians, without any abroad interference. We request a solution, but their agenda is inactive under way. erstwhile will this war end? That's erstwhile the inspirers of this war want it to end. We did not want this war before, nor do we want it today. We gotta end this war on 1 condition. The cost of this cannot be Syrian dignity. Syria will never accept anyone's dictatorships. Syria is an arabian country that is faithful to the global values of the UN. And even so, we will never accept anyone who violates laws or hypocrites who only speaks out about human rights and in fact does the opposite.
Does humanitarian aid now scope Syria?
– There is always a lot to be heard in the Western European media that they are sending humanitarian aid to Syria. Problem is, this aid reaches the locations under the control of Al-Nusra terrorists. European Union countries do not have their own independent policy. Of course, we don't say they don't aid due to the fact that they help. However, as the main organizer of this assistance is the European Union, it establishes that the aid should be transferred to the Syrian-Turkish border, the 1 closest to terrorist militias in northern Syria. Therefore, erstwhile they say they are giving aid to Syria, they do not actually give it to Syria, due to the fact that it is beyond the control of the Syrian government.
In the safety Council, we have a conflict all six months to extend the aid to another border crossings. Meanwhile, the West wants to transfer aid only across the Turkish border. And Syria always says that if they want to supply help, let them give it to Syria in consultation with the Syrian government. And then it will be distributed to people. But they won't accept it. Therefore, 99 percent of this assistance reaches Syrians at the Turkish border, i.e. “their Syria” controlled by Al-Nusra Front terrorists. What comes to Syria never gets straight from France, England, Poland or the United States. Only as far as we are afraid is the aid that comes from the UN or its organisations, specified as UNICEF. And then it is distributed in cooperation with the Syrian Ministry of Social Affairs or another ministries of this type. Meanwhile, aid, which reaches the areas controlled by the alleged opposition, takes over Al-Nusra, which then distributes and sells it. And they're not empty accusations, we have hard evidence.
Syria is the cradle of our civilization. Even before the war, there were many tourists and pilgrims who admired cultural wealth, including beautiful and priceless monuments. What losses did Syria endure in this respect as a consequence of the present war?
– 1 of the terrorist's goals was to destruct civilization and take us back to the dark ages. In Syria and Iraq, they entered museums and destroyed anything that could prove that the state was the cradle of civilization. A priceless example of this civilization is Palmira. Terrorists have occupied this city twice. Among another things, they blew up Hadad temple [Baalshamin—at. ed.], Amphitheater, destroyed the Arc Triumfalna. Today, thank God, most of the city with the aid of our Russian friends is rebuilt. Many another historical sites specified as Hama and Afamia, where Alexander the large was stationed, suffered from the hands of terrorists during the expeditions to present-day Iran and Pakistan. Terrorists besides entered Aleppo, 1 of the oldest cities in the world. And what did they do? They ruined everything, including historical Al-Madina Souq – the largest covered marketplace in the world, located in the ancient district, included on the UNESCO planet Heritage List. But now, thank God, it's almost rebuilt.
ISIS terrorists not only destroyed, but besides stole, dug up archaeological treasures, and smuggled into Turkey, Europe, where they tried to sale to finance their further activity. Thanks to the fact that many of these historical objects were recorded by UNESCO, any of them were recovered. erstwhile individual tried to sale these monuments in European countries, possible buyers compared them to those written by UNESCO. And erstwhile they recognized it as stolen, they confiscated and returned to Syria. Syria enjoyed large interest in tourists before the war. In 2010, a year before the crisis, the number of tourists reached around 9 million. Now you will not see Western, European or Asian tourists. If they are few, due to the fact that on the sides of the Ministry of abroad Affairs of these countries, they inform citizens before travelling to Syria. But arabian tourists are coming. Syria is actually safe now, especially those major cities specified as Damascus, Aleppo, Homs, Latakia are open to tourists.
A fewer years ago, there was quite a few talk in Europe about Syrian refugees. The subject was controversial and divided Europeans, including Poles. any wanted to help, others feared that terrorists would besides enter Europe on the wave of refugees. We besides heard that suspicious organizations were liable for bringing these people in, and did not necessarily want to aid the real Syrians in need. It has come to this that Syrians have repeatedly warned against the conduct of moving Syrians out of the country. Do you know how many people left Syria on this wave? Who was behind this, and what was his purpose?
– Refugees or migrants are utilized as a political tool. Two, 3 months before the crisis – which began officially on March 15, 2011 – Turkey prepared everything and built exile camps on its border. And erstwhile the crisis began, they pushed people into these camps. They even did quite a few massacres to scare people and make them run away. presently Turkey's president Erdogan says they have 3-4 million Syrian refugees; Lebanon 1.8 million; Jordan 1.2 million. These numbers are much higher than those officially reported by the UN. It was mainly about getting as many Syrians out of Syria to be under control and announcing that Asad was a dictator, and Syria was a criminal country, etc. All so that in any future election they vote against the current government. In general, exile issues have been noted as a political instrument to put force on, among others, the Syrian government, but not only. A fewer years ago, Turkey blackmailed Europe. president Erdogan was not satisfied with how Europe was dealing with them in connection with the process of joining the European Union. He threatened to open borders and send these 3-4 million refugees to Europe.
W Germany now has about a million Syrians, in France, England or Sweden there are hundreds of thousands of them. There is no specified problem in Poland, due to the fact that for Syrian migrants Poland is not an objective, but alternatively a station on the way to another countries. Syrians who leave for Europe do not leave Syria – as any people effort to show – due to an escape from persecution by the Syrian government. They are leaving due to the fact that the economical situation in Syria is very difficult, so they are looking for more favourable conditions to improve the standard of living. Meanwhile, Syria is preparing everything for their return. For 3 years, we have held global conferences all six months on refugees and displaced persons to facilitate their return to their homeland. At the beginning of this year, president Asad even signed a decree on amnesty. He assumes that if individual committed any crime—except for 1 that led to any murder—he is subjected to amnesty. The Syrian leader made it very clear that we can forgive crimes committed against the state, but we cannot forgive crimes committed against individual rights. If individual murdered individual in your family, for example, we have no right to forgive. Only you have the right to forgive.
In 2016, Chinese economist Song Hongbing, author of the celebrated book “War for Money” came to Poland. A guest from China participated in a conference organized in the Polish parliament, where he told about the fresh Silk Road, a task to build modern railway lines linking the east of Asia to the west of Europe. He explained that 1 of the obstacles to a major Chinese investment was the war in Syria and the anticipation of a conflict from the mediate East to Eurasia. The emergence of this way will knock the United States out of the planet position of Hegemon and thus make China the top power. In view of the above, has China taken any steps to push American influences from the mediate East, including Syria?
The Silk Road has a long history. The caravans rode from China, through India and Persia to Arabia. Modern Iraq, Syria or Palmira were crucial stations of this historical trail. The sea way led through Indonesia, to Oman, Yemen, and from there continued with caravans by Syria to Turkey, to Europe. And they could usage this way all year round. However, roads through China, Kazakhstan or Russia in those days could only usage for a fewer months a year, due to the fact that in the remaining months local weather did not let them to do so. Now China has a fresh political and economical task that they have spent quite a few money on. It's about the Belt and way Initiative. The Chinese are building a road between Western China and the Arabian Sea, where the strategical place here is the port city of Gwadar in Pakistan. Chinese goods can be picked up from the port of Gwadar without having to go straight to China.
India is doing the same in cooperation with Iran in the port city of Chabahar on the Gulf of Oman and at the mouth of the Strait of Ormuz [this is the only Iranian port with direct access to the Indian Ocean; being close to Afghanistan and the Central Asian countries of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and others, was named the Golden Gate to these inland countries – ed.] Since the sea in this area is deep, this port is besides able to handle container ships. Of course, the United States doesn't like that. Americans don't like any trade activity that's beyond their control. They're watching China, their economical growth, which is beginning to surpass American. That is why the United States is trying to halt this by pushing on another countries, imposing sanctions or utilizing stories about China breaking human rights.
Although Syria is an crucial station on this route, I do not think China is presently curious in investing with us. The Chinese are very pragmatic and always consider all possibilities. And we really know from talking to our Chinese friends that Syria is happening in their minds. However, if this is not possible due to the Syrian crisis, they can always find another way. At the moment, China is reasoning of Iran to carry its products to Western Europe. Israel, on the another hand, is trying to convince the Chinese, the United arabian Emirates, and the Saudis to take the railway to Israel.
Since we're in Israel... After the 1967 Six Day War, Syria lost Golan Hill, which has since been under Israeli occupation. Israel made it clear that it would never return Syria. Could it be related to plans to build the alleged large Israel? What is Syria's position on these historical Syrian lands? Is Syria planning to regain Golan Hill?
– Of course, the plan of large Israel is simply a dream of Zionists, especially Likud leaders [the right-wing-nationalist party, the leader of which is B. Netanyahu – ed.]. Though a small delayed in time, 1 step at a time, they strive to do so. As for the six-day war, this is an example of Israeli arrogance. And we specify this war as Israeli aggression. They then took Sinai, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, any parts of Jordan and the Syrian Golan Hills. Syria adheres to UN safety Council Resolution 242, which states a ban on the acquisition of territories of another countries by force and demands Israel to retreat troops from areas occupied during the six-day war. It was 1967. For six consecutive years, nothing happened. On October 6, 1973, another war broke out [Jom Kipur – ed.], during which Syria and Egypt attempted to take their territories. In any fields we have won, in others we have lost, due to the fact that the United States and Europe have supplied weapons, supplies and tanks to aid Israel. A later UN safety Council Resolution 338 was adopted, which called for ceasefire and the immediate application in full of the erstwhile Resolution 242 calling for Israel to retreat from occupied areas. Israel, of course, did not respect this by having the Western planet behind its back and their veto. In 1991, this full peace process began, but they always effort to bargain that they won't give it back to us, but in return they will give it back to us or that.
Nope. We have tough conditions. Israel must return to its borders before 1967, and we insist on it. We have no objection to reopening the peace talks with Israel, but our conditions must be fulfilled. We can start talking even tomorrow, but only under these conditions. All global resolutions of the UN — No 242, No 338 and others — must be placed on the table, making it clear that these lands seized by Israel are owned by Syria. And whether now or 50 years from now, these lands will return to us and we will never give up.
According to any media reports, during the current war Israel supported terrorists from Golan Hills fighting against the Syrian army. Is that true?
– This is another communicative about Israeli commitment to the plan against Syria. They helped terrorists with Daesh or Al-Nusra, even taking them across the border to their hospitals. If 1 of them was stuck in the confederate part of Syria and was surrounded by troops and forced to surrender, Israel sent a chopper to rescue him and transported him to an Israeli hospital.
Is there anything at the end of our discussion that you would like to convey to Polish readers through this interview?
– You can be certain that Syria will do everything in its power to defy and fight against the run against it. And as long as it doesn't last, Syria won't get blackmailed and broken. Of course, we request to live in peace, but to live in peace with our heads up. We can't do anything just to delight Americans or anyone else. due to the fact that if we keep doing what they want from the beginning, if we always make concessions, then we'll gotta do it all the time. And our approach is besides the origin of all this hostility towards Syria. But Syria will stay in its position and fight to the end.
My next message, which I would like to convey, concerns many years of Syrian-Polish relations. Since the beginning of our diplomatic cooperation, we have enjoyed very good relations. Many Syrians besides have household ties with Poles, which further strengthen our relations. And for this reason, whenever possible, it is worth cooperating at all levels, regardless of the political situation. We love Poles and we know that profoundly in our hearts Poles like Syria and want the best for it. late it was independency Day, where I attended the presidential ceremony. And on the occasion of this event, I would like to send my congratulations to Poles due to their holiday, so that they always have stability, prosperity and hard-earned sovereignty. May God proceed to bless Poland and Poles.
Thank you for talking to us.
They were talking: Agnieszka Piwar and Sandra Malazi.
(Interview was conducted on November 15, 2022)
The first part of the interview was published in Polish Thought, No. 1-2 (1-8.01.2023), completed in No. 3-4 (15-22.01.2023).
