Residents of the border areas in Podlasie must face displacement [talk]

At what phase is the construction "Eastern Shields” in the Podlaskie Voivodeship, in our border regions?

Paweł Krutul: At the preparatory stage, General Garrison is liable for the Ministry of Defence. Deputy Minister of Defence Stanisław Wąątek visited Hajnówka in late October. At this meeting, questions were raised first of all about the terrain on which the “Tarcza East” will be created, and a request was made for the preparation of a gathering between the MON and local authorities.

The draft law on the “Hard East” published by the MON gives virtually unlimited possibilities for taking over the site from various entities, including individuals. Residents, especially border villages, are in panic. On television, they hear from government representatives that building the shield will start this year, they see a bill that includes expropriation, and they are incapable to get an answer from anyone that awaits them.

That's why we're pushing the Ministry of Defence to get to this gathering as shortly as possible. It is understandable that border residents are concerned, have their homes, their properties.

Are the inhabitants of the villages and villages located close the border awaiting displacement?

The Minister will answer that question. If the plots are straight adjacent to the border, then MON will want to buy the land.

How far from the border are we talking?

Minister Wąątek did not answer this question during his visit to Hajnówka or in an interview which he would give to Radio Białystok.

I would like to ask about this gathering in Hajnówka on October 24. Who were you gathering there?

It was a gathering with the activists of the Left, but there were besides local governments. The questions you're asking are dead there, too.

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Am I to realize that this was a organization meeting? due to the fact that there was no information about him anywhere, I know that local authorities, e.g. the governors of border communes or councillors of the territory of Hajnowski, were not invited. However, after the meeting, you wrote on social media that it was a gathering with local governments and residents.

At the gathering was erstwhile Mayor of Hajnówka Jerzy Sirak, presently a territory councillor, and erstwhile politician Vladimir Pietroczuk.

It's a mediocre representation of self-government.

As I said, this was not a strict gathering with local government, but with activists, the deputy minister could only spend an hr on them. 1 of the first questions was “The Tartar East”.

And the answer didn't come up?

No, it's not. The Minister of Take has promised us another meeting.

When?

This year.

Will there be a public consultation?

We'll know everything at the gathering I mentioned.

Do you know anything about any ownership designation of land adjacent to the border at this phase of the shield construction?

The Ministry of Defence is liable for this. They surely have made any preparations. You anticipate me to do things I don't know.

These are the questions the villagers ask.

I realize that, which is why we call for a gathering like we did in the provincial office, even erstwhile we introduced the buffer zone.

Do the government, ministers and military realize that especially in the Podlaskie Voivodeship border areas are inhabited by minorities? By Orthodox Belarusians, Ukrainians, Lithuanian minority, Tatar minority. In number environments, there are already talk of expropriation plans and displaced people as fresh The Vistula Action.

There are different voices coming to us, which is why, as I said a minute earlier, we call for a gathering to be held as shortly as possible, due to the fact that all the questions you are asking me will surely come down from the room. We want this cleared up as shortly as possible. On the another hand, the Ministry of National Defence cannot be required to print all the information on the “Hard East” due to the fact that it is simply a strategical construction.

I don't think there's a way to cover up military expropriation or displacement, to hide them from the people that will be affected.

Of course you can't. As the minister said, a peculiar agency and an expert will be appointed to do so, a marketplace acquisition price will be proposed.

So at this stage, we can say that residents of border municipalities should be so likely to have specified an expert with a letter from MON knock on them?

Where the Tarcza East will run, the area must belong to the state. This can't be private.

Unfortunately, the real property marketplace price has fallen over the last fewer years.

This will besides be an crucial issue to address at a gathering with representatives of the MON.

When the shield was presented, it was said that various types of structures would scope up to 50 kilometres [50 km] from the border [in May, he presented specified assumptions to MON – ed.] into Poland.

I don't think it's that much, it sounds like a Facebook. That's impossible.

For respective years, the inhabitants of our region, especially border municipalities and powiats, have borne additional costs in connection with militarisation of the region. We are dealing with, for example, specified a trivial problem as the deficiency of mobile and net coverage. Over the past 3 years, the quality of these services has deteriorated dramatically, in operators' lounges we hear that the military is jamming the signal, and there is simply a higher burden of transmitters. But nobody offers a solution, operators reject complaints. We're being digitally excluded.

On 5 November, Deputy Minister of Digitization will be in Białystok. This is simply a strict question to this resort.

After the visit of Deputy Minister Wzączka from the Ministry of National Affairs in Białystok and, as it turns out, in Hajnówka, you said with large optimism at a press conference that you see the future of Podlaskie state as a militarised region, where the military will be the largest employer.

We do not have a large manufacture in the region, compared to another voivodships there are not many companies here. If all goes according to plan and the First Podlasie Legion Division is formed, then the military will indeed be the largest employer here. I think that he is simply a very good, reliable employer, even before banks, in a situation where you gotta take credit, etc. Unfortunately, we have the kind of location on the map we have, and there'll be more troops. fresh units are already slow opening, although the period of their formation will be many years.

How many fresh units are there?

At the minute we have the Red Bór, the Voivod, the Kolno and the Semyatiche. The bomb squad opened in Augustów. So that these units arrive.

How many soldiers will it be??

About 30,000 soldiers are planned if everything goes as planned. It's not an easy process due to the fact that we have a problem with demography and getting young people into the army. On the another hand, it is simply a good thing for the voivodship that those who decide to join will be able to stay in Podlasie.

Is there any investigation showing whether militarisation of the region truly is the imagination of the future that the people, especially young people, want for?

We see this in military recruitment centers, which evidence the number of people applying for military service.

At a press conference, you besides said that 2 jobs in the private sector are usually created to service 1 soldier. What is this soldier service? What kind of jobs are these? In the church Dubich we already have the 3rd year of makeshift barracks, but the jobs that have developed around them can be counted on the fingers of 1 hand.

Not everything will be within the unit. It's laundry, it's food supplies that are being prepared for units, it's another services, like barbers, schools. They're going to gotta build fresh apartments around these units, either decision there or have families. This is simply a value added to us due to the fact that the Podlasie is depopulating.

These are not very innovative sectors of the economy, but the simplest services. You're talking about the demographic situation in Podlasie. If we have 30,000 soldiers in fresh units, we'll request 60,000 people to service them according to your pattern.

Madam editor, it won't happen at once, in a year or six months. Building a Podlasie division could take a decade.

But right now we have a immense hunger for human resources in the labour market, which employers are trying to satisfy migrants. This happens throughout Poland, although in Poland, in Podlasie, demographic indicators are among the lowest. I don't think these jobs you're talking about will attract employees from another provinces. Who, then, will “minister” these soldiers? Migrants?

This trial will last for years. We won't do it in 1 year.

Have the plans for militarization of Podlasie been consulted with the local business environment? I came to an article a while ago in the Podlasie Business Zone, devoted to the impact of this process, including the construction of the “Hard East”, on entrepreneurs. The president of the Chamber of Commerce and manufacture in Białystok says: “We are facing a deep crisis, building the Shield of the East will not change much. We build fortifications and then what? The investment will take respective years, then there will most likely be money to keep it, but that's not adequate for everyone. Podlasie is treated as a controlled crash region in the car. Not all companies will be able to reclassify, many industries suffer.” And the president of the Suwałki Chamber of Commerce and manufacture says that the business shield will not help: “For us, the very fact that we are talking about Suwałki is already a immense tragedy. If it starts to say they're building dams here from tanks, it'll scare off possible investors. Talking about it is simply a harm to entrepreneurs." Podlasie business does not respond enthusiastically to government plans for the region.

We have no choice. This shield will rise, as the Prime Minister said, along the Polish-Belarusian border and along the border with the royal circuit. It's almost 800 kilometers. We have the neighbors we have. There is an open war in neighboring Ukraine, and now North Korean soldiers joined it to strengthen Putin's army. We request to be ready for all the scenarios. We request to be prepared for certain things to never happen. I can't imagine our towns looking like Ukraine. That's why we're taking a preemptive step.

So we're eliminating the locality by the border ourselves, right?

No, I'm certain what you said about 50 kilometers is impossible. It'll be a lot less.

But they have so many defenses. If they truly are to execute their functions, what is the alternative?

It'll be a much smaller distance from the border. The residents will receive a concrete consequence at a gathering with representatives of the MON. I'm certain we'll be doing everything we can to keep the Podlasies safe. This is the most crucial thing for us.

The sub-chambers, too?

All residents of Podlaskie Voivodeship, all who come here, stay permanently, temporarily. Everyone must be safe in the Podlasie region. I truly don't want to have this barrier on the Polish-Belarusian border, but unfortunately we have the situation we have. After all, we besides have families mixed with the Belarusians, we live in symbiosis, there is no problem with that. But unfortunately, Lukashenko does all the Kremlin's orders.

We are talking about an investment that, in its size, price and interference in social tissue, is almost monstrous. Are the Plans of the Tartar East based on circumstantial scenarios, on any modeling of what an armed conflict with Russia might look like?

I can't answer that question either. That's what the Ministry of Defence has to ask.

The Tarcza East will be a very large interference in the land and in the cultural landscape, which is peculiarly valuable for minorities, for their identity, for their sense of rooting. It is among minorities that this plan related to expropriations and displacement raises the worst associations. It's about running, erstwhile the Russian army actually manipulated people into abandoning their homes and going on a hike into Russia, many of which did not return. But it is besides about postwar cultural cleansing, accompanying the process of delimiting the border with russian Belarus.

These are unfair comparisons, due to the fact that we don't want to hurt anyone in any way. If there are real property purchases, then at marketplace prices.

Yes, but not everything can be rewarded with money, specified as breaking up a community, tearing up roots.

The most crucial thing for us is the safety of the residents. We regret it, but we have an unpredictable neighbor.

Or is “The Tartar East” truly meant to fight migration?

Nope. As the Provincial Office, we hope that sooner or later we will have open border crossing points again, and we hope that this will happen as shortly as possible. Unfortunately, it is simply a political decision between Brussels, Warsaw and Belarus. We would like these transitions to be open and for those who want to be able to apply for asylum.

But the government you represent as vice-voivode has just announced that it will suspend territorially and temporarily the right to asylum.

That's what you say: temporary.

And territorially on the border with Belarus, which is primarily in Podlaskie. Do you support this suspension of the right to asylum?

Whether this happens will depend on the another side, on what will happen in Belarus and what signals will come from there.

Turning to the specificity of the border landscape, it is besides worrying Bialowieża Forest. As a dense, natural forest, in many places a swamped forest, in itself is an excellent obstacle to carrying out armed action on land.

The Minister of Takes said so at a gathering with the manager of the Bialowieża National Park. That was her first perfectly understandable question to the minister.

So no fortifications will be built in the Białowieża Forest?

I don't know that for sure. I can only trust on what the minister said in an interview with Mrs Olimpia Pabian, manager of BPN. And he said that there are places that constitute a natural barrier and where there will be no request to build elements of the “Hard East”.

Is the government considering liquidating the forests in the Białowieża Forest and transferring it to military management?

I've never heard of that. This is our legacy, we must take care of them.

I would like to return to the plans for militarisation, which you are a passionate supporter of. Is it truly possible to talk about any developments in the situation erstwhile the military becomes an economical nucleus for Podlasie? This means dependence on state resources, which are spent arbitrarily and without social control, due to the fact that the military can always cover itself with a secret. We besides have quite a few experience of military presence as residents. You say he's a solid business partner. Meanwhile, we have situations that show that this is simply a alternatively whimsical contractor who uses the advantage of the force behind him.

What does that mean, capricious?

Today is, next day may not be, changing the terms. It's arranged for something, and then it doesn't do it, it doesn't service the rooms it uses.

These problems will be over erstwhile the troops emergence and erstwhile the troops are on their territory. Any inconvenience which is presently occurring shall be reported to the commander.

Except as residents, we don't know who the commander is. Since the military arrived in the region, we have not heard anything about it.

The 18th Mechanized Division is liable for the main command in the Podlaskie Voivodeship. If any of the local authorities want to get in touch, I'd be happy to make it available.

From what you say, it is clear that improvised barracks, which were created, for example, in the municipality of Dubiche Church or in Bialowieża, but besides in another border municipalities, will simply disappear.

Probably. If the barracks and the full infrastructure stand, any of it will disappear.

We meet about a year after the election won by the alleged coalition on October 15. This was expected to be a democratic change after 8 years of erstwhile rule, and I know that many border residents have been waiting for it. We were sick of manipulating, operating with fear, chaotic militarization, increased control and surveillance from the service. But alternatively of relief, alternatively of a reasonable correction of border policy, we have been given a fresh democratic government plans for expropriation and displacement. It creates an existential fear, a fear for its own homes, a fear for its own future.

When we drew the course of the buffer zone, there were besides entrepreneurs and local governments from border towns. Their voice was weighing. The editor knows very well that we have managed to bypass many towns in this way, we have reached an agreement. Tourism suffered this season, that's no question.

In the erstwhile years, she suffered, and with specified a policy, there is no position of reflection.

I hope that there will be backing for this, including European money. As the Provincial Office, we truly lobby for this in all ministries. The voivode arranged additional funds for the promotion of Podlasie, nearly PLN 1.5 million. This had the effect – possibly not as large as we would like, but many tourists returned, decided to come. I always show my friends our region, they are very positively surprised, even infatuated. They besides see, of course, what the editor says – that there are many troops in this area, in the area of the Białowieża Forest. In the Provincial Office, we will truly do everything to get the money and compensate for these losses to companies, tiny and larger, due to the fact that the construction of the “Tight East” will surely affect the perception of Podlasie. This is why we besides want Podlasie companies to participate in its construction.

But they'll be construction companies. What about the others?

Yeah, but it's gonna increase their capabilities, extra jobs.

Yes, but I'm proceeding voices saying that these local construction companies would gotta grow their employment. Like I said, it's not easy for us in the province, so they'd most likely be migrants. And then erstwhile the construction is done, these companies will stay with these people and they won't know what to do with them.

Engineering troops will be liable for the construction, but surely with an investment of this scale and on specified a long long they will not manage themselves. All parliamentarians and parliamentarians in Podlasie will strive to guarantee that these funds are diverted to our local companies in specified a situation.

In the process, the public consultation that I hope will take place, will you, as a leftist politician, represent the interests of the civilian side or the military side? You're known for, let's call it, militaristic inclinations. And today, border residents frequently feel that no 1 represents them – neither politicians of the ruling coalition nor opposition.

My tiny homeland is the Podlasie state and I will do everything to make it safe.

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Paul Krutul – Podlaskie entrepreneur and politician, associate of Parliament of the 9th term. He was initially associated with Modern, he was vice-president of the party's board of directors in Podlaskie Voivodeship. In 2017, he joined the Civic Platform. In 2019, he moved to Spring, taking the lead in its structures in Podlasie. In the 2019 parliamentary election, he competed with the first SLD list in the Podlaskie constituency and won the only mandate for the Left from the region.