Katarzyna Przyborska: Leftist parties and groups of our region formed an alliance with their own name CEEGLA. What Members Link The Green Left Alliance of Central and east Europe?
Anna Górska: Above all, the view of Russia, which we unanimously consider a threat to the democratic world.
Unlike the left of old Europe?
Yeah. According to many left-wing European parties, the war in Ukraine is simply a local conflict.
And even proxy war Russia from the USA.
Exactly. And we, from countries that have experienced centuries-old Russian imperialism, are aware of the danger and the necessity of defence. We believe that our position must be taken into account.
Why doesn't this position understand? Is the western left feeling older and stronger than the countries that joined the EU in the 21st century?
Yeah, they definitely feel they have better judgement due to the fact that they've been on that phase longer. They are besides led by specified naive pacifism, fed by groups associated with Russia. We have explained from the beginning that the very strong support of Ukraine – besides military – is crucial for the safety of the region and of Europe as a whole. It was military aid that became a clear dividing axis, so we rapidly decided to give a clear signal that from the position of our region the situation was different.
Quick, what's that?
The war broke out in February, and as early as March we invited our current partners to Warsaw and released a message of the request to support Ukraine. Among another things, we were accompanied by Jussi Saramo from Finland, which has a long border with Russia and inactive rather fresh historical experiences, on many levels a position that coincides with ours. That was the first step. Then we mapped out more organizations and realized that there was a small young, green, progressive left that looked clear at the war. We have come to the conclusion that it will be easier for us to talk to the Western Left erstwhile we are united.
Does the fact that Ukraine does not quit not change the perception of this war by the western left?
I have a feeling that the approach is changing, but very slowly, and sometimes these changes are staged. If we are talking about specified organisations that mattered in Europe – I deliberately usage past time, due to the fact that I mean, for example, German Die Linke or Spanish Podemos – they are mostly inactive in the belief that Russia needs to be dealt with as rapidly as possible. We keep saying that it's impossible, at least as long as Putin, a dictator who treats our region as his sphere of influence that has snuck out for a while and wants it back.
But Die Linke and Podemos are in crisis.
They're clearly weakening. Half of Die Linke went to very dangerous nationalist positions. Subemos will besides be hard to raise. Some of her constituents were taken over by Yolanda Díaz and her Sumer party. We're in contact with Díaz, he's got a different policy than Podemos. But immediately, as early as 2022, the Portuguese Left was on our side.
How different?
I am certain that Diaz understands better that the failure of Ukraine is simply a threat to peace and safety throughout Europe, including the Iberian Peninsula.
CEEGLA is – in addition to Together – organizations from Lithuania, the Czech Republic, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine. Scandinavia was represented by Jussi Saramo of Finland, the only parliamentary politician in the group, erstwhile Minister of Education. No Swedes, no Norwegians?
Sweden was represented by Euro MP Malin Björk, a longtime feminist activist, and Jonas Sjöstedt, a erstwhile MP and president of the Swedish Left. But the fact is, we're a small different from the Scandinavians. We are in favour of strengthening European military alliances to build a European army and not trust solely on NATO, we say.
Because the alliance policy may depend on it Who will be president of the United States.
Of course. There is simply a real threat that the president will be again a man who openly and plainly says that he will not aid Europe if Putin attacks her. We must adopt a liable defence strategy and a safety strategy and build ourselves besides militarily, unfortunately. Meanwhile, any of our Scandinavian partners are skeptical of the construction of a European army.
However, they entered NATO.
Finland was inactive introduced by the left-wing government, but we must take into account the minute erstwhile this decision was taken, and its geopolitical significance. Finland and Sweden are countries with a very large and crucial military possible for the alliance. In addition, it showed Putin that erstwhile he attacks our allies and friends, we become like a Victorian formation (walls of shields) or like a Roman “ turtle” defensive. Hopefully, after the U.S. election.
CEEGLA, in addition to Together, is formed by parties and couch groups, not parliamentary. Why is there so much weakness in leftist parties?
In the countries of our region there are leftist parties with post-Soviet pedigree. Together, on the another hand, it is simply a young, progressive, green left and we will position ourselves among the same groups, and we will strengthen relations with them. Czech Budoucnost is simply a fewer years old, presently has 1 councillor in Prague. Lithuanian Kartu is besides a young organization that has gathered young activists, unincorporated in the political arrangements that be so far, on the ruins of the old parties. The Social Movement from Ukraine has strong links with Ukrainian trade unions. The conditions for the creation of the organization in Ukraine are highly difficult, including that immense funds are needed for this, which paves the political scene and favours oligarchy. Demos from Romania is an organization akin to us, though outside the parliament. The Sikra of Hungary has 1 MP.
We want young left-wing movements in the region to work together and build each other. We have a akin history, a akin experience of regaining freedom over the last 3 decades, with inequalities arising from the transformation and chaotic capitalism of the 1990s. Transformative experience has had a akin impact on societies in countries where we have created a "brick". The situation of trade unions, which are much stronger in Western European countries, is similar.
Listening to liberal politicians, 1 breath of "extreme, fascist, pro-Russian right-wing and left-wing parties", I think you besides share the experience of distrust of the left in post-communist countries.
Western Europe understands this pluralism a small differently. Even this truly extremist left has been in Europe for years and has participated in politics. In our fresh progressive left region, it is hard to face this reluctance precisely due to the fact that here everything left-wing is considered communist, post-missive, pro-Russian.
In Poland, the Confederate is more fond of liberals.
This is remarkable, due to the fact that from how we act all day and what we do, it clearly shows who is pro-state and who is pro-Russian. Just perceive and see what say and do Confederate politicians. In Poland it is reluctant to be reminded that Roman Dmowski would alternatively grin at the Tsar than act with independency forces. That was the tradition of the right, and it's akin now.
The Confederate and the PiS endanger migration, the PO lacks an thought for it. Maciej Duszczyk announced that Poland would not accept a single migrant from the migration pact. And migration is and will be, throughout Europe. Following the arrangements for the migration pact, it is clear that continent slow turns into a fortress. Does the “brick” forge a left-wing thought for migration policy?
The European Union, in our view, has no migration policy. It limits itself to keeping migrants on their backs and financing countries that can halt them from coming to Europe. We are closer to the Scandinavian models, although we see what mistakes they have made over the years in their migration policies.
Like what?
Allowing ghettoization, as in Sweden. The crisis caused the right. We are looking at Norway, which is not in the European Union, but is besides close to us. The conditions for people coming there seem much better. There is language learning, the anticipation of taking legal work. These are patterns worth reaching for. Migration will increase with the expanding climate crisis. We can't ignore this anymore. Especially since we have a serious demographic crisis in Poland, throughout Europe. We request men. 2 million refugees and refugees from Ukraine remained in Poland, and they neither took our occupation nor took our queues to doctors, which frightened us.
How will you compete for the European elections? Is it according to the coalition key, Polish to make it easier to realize for Polish voters, or according to existing parties at Union level?
I think that in Polish conditions the first option will be more effective. fewer people in Poland are curious in factions, blocks and global parties. I would like us to have a left-wing list for the European Parliament.
But in the EP, Together and fresh Left are not in the same faction. Why, exactly?
We are not part of the S&D family, or socialists and democrats. However, our common task is to present the list to the left-wing voters to the European Parliament, with a coherent, circumstantial programme.
Which is?
Since we first ran for the EP – as a organization Together, the Social Justice Movement and the Labour Union – we have said that we want to strengthen democratic structures in the European Union, give more importance to the European Parliament. To guarantee that solidarity, which is 1 of the foundations of the EU's operation, is not wasted, but that it actually covers all countries. To guarantee that the Union ensures equalisation of social standards in individual countries, due to the fact that it depends on whether we fall apart. Young EU countries from our mediate East European bloc are inactive on track, both in terms of pay, respect for labour law, living, social affairs and freedom of association in unions.
So you want to abandon the semi-periphery, the function of a reserve of inexpensive labor. Can we do that?
There's no way out. The sustainability of the European Union depends on equalising the levels of prosperity. And we want the Union to strengthen its cooperation in the following areas: the economy, defence, social affairs. This is simply a fundamental issue, concerning our widely understood security.
Aren't you afraid of losing your independence? An identity blur?
On the contrary. I think that it is only erstwhile we level out the social and surviving standards of individual countries, wellness and education standards, when, from a European level, we can guarantee that large corporations do not have the same impact on our economies as they do today, that we can talk about independence. Now it's Facebook, Microsoft and Google who dictate the terms.
So we are not threatened by Brussels and Berlin, but by Microsoft and Google?
If we cannot conduct our own taxation policy due to the fact that we are afraid of large corporations, that means that we are dependent on them, we have lost our subjectivity. People are getting better and better connected, and they see that they gotta rise money for treatment while large companies don't pay taxes. And there are immense challenges ahead, specified as a powerful energy transformation. Either we run it so it's socially fair, under the control of the state, or we let the free American we've been dealing with. In the second scenario, it will come to the conclusion that the owner of atomic power plants will be American, Korean or private Polish capital – which will aim to increase prices, due to the fact that the investment has to return, and the state will be subject to this capital, due to the fact that what is to do if, for example, it stands before the imagination of "removing the plug". This is 1 of the crucial elements that I think should be included in the European agenda.
Especially since Europe has taken a powerful common credit for energy transformation, so this money should not go into private pockets.
We spoke in the Union – after the outbreak of the war in Ukraine, erstwhile the energy crisis was expanding and electricity prices were costly – that surplus profits of energy companies should be taxed. 1 of the countries that blocked it was Poland.
But don't you want you were in coalition 15 October? By the way of local elections, you could build structures that the organization together has small. Aren't you afraid of the destiny of ephemera?
I'm optimistic. We have truly well mapped Poland, real possibilities. Our precedence is to run for city councils, districts, communes.
As a Together? In an even bigger coalition?
Local elections are actually hundreds of tiny choices. Today, elections at municipal, municipal levels are very frequently launched from electoral committees, broad coalitions. We will run sometimes in broad coalitions, in contrast to the present authorities, sometimes where we have a cool progressive council of the city and the mayor, and sometimes we will want to support good self-government power for another term.
How many people do you want to bring to the local government?
Honestly, I'm counting on a twelve fines in various councils. We have a large city organization patch, but we're targeting 30–40-thousand cities. Apart from the Seymites, talks with the coalitions proceed here.
But don't you feel sorry for the chance that has passed to gain experience by taking up government, ministerial positions?
This experience can be gained in various ways. We don't have ministers, but there are people in our organization who have experience. We're not a staff party. More valuable for us than forging human resources in administration will be building in regions, in cities. That gives us visibility. And then the election could be accelerated.
You are not afraid that then voters will punish you for your individuality, for unwillingness to co-create government, to take part in the work – and they just won't vote for the organization Together?
There are many disappointed, but there are many satisfied with the decision not to join the coalition on October 15. We don't leave the Democratic camp, we don't stand in hard opposition, we're inactive at the Left club, and we keep saying we're going to support all the good solutions. As a senator from The legislature Pact I feel like I'm part of this camp that pulled the PiS distant from power.
But there are besides things we will criticize. And we think it's good that there's a force in the Democratic camp that's not bound to 100% loyalty that can correct the course of the fresh power. It pays off for everyone. Donald Tusk pays to perceive to us sometimes, and we can be the left that our voters expect.
It's so personal. You take work for your organization and another parties take work for Poland.
But politics are identity. And we besides take work for Poland and the state of Polish democracy. We believe that there is no democracy in our country without a strong left. Voters who do not necessarily want to privatise everything – wellness protection, education, who do not want to be solely on debt of 0.2, 8 or 15 percent – must have their representation.
**
Anna Górska – associate of the national organization board Together, journalist, global relations specialist. In the final election, she won 89,216 votes and obtained a senator's mandate.
* Oh, my God *
Funded by the European Union. The views and opinions are expressed by the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of the European Union or the Directorate-General for Networks, Content and Technology. Neither the European Union nor the granting body are liable for the financing.
