T.Carlson's interview with W.Putin

Full content of interviewing American writer and political commentator Tucker Carlson with Russian president. Vladimir Putin

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T. Carlson: Mr. President, thank you very much.

On 24 February 2022, you spoke to your country and nation erstwhile conflict began in Ukraine. You said you were acting due to the fact that you concluded that with NATO, the United States could launch an unexpected attack, an attack on your country. It's expected to be paranoid for Americans.

Why do you think that America could hit Russia unexpectedly? How did you come to that conclusion?

Vladimir Putin: It's not that America was going to hit Russia unexpectedly, I didn't say that.

Are we in the mediate of a talk show, or are we having a serious conversation?

T. Carlson: That's a wonderful quote. Thank you.

We're having a serious conversation.

Vladimir Putin: Your basic education is history, as far as I understand, right?

T. Carlson: Yeah.

Vladimir Putin: In that case, I will only let 30 seconds or 1 minute to present a short historical background. Would you mind?

T. Carlson: Of course, please.

Vladimir Putin"Look how our relations with Ukraine began, where did they come from, Ukraine?

The Russian state began to form as a centralised state, considered to be the year of the Russian state's establishment – 862, erstwhile Novgorod – in the north-western part of the country is located in the city of Novgorod – invited Duke Rurick of Scandinavia, from the Waregs, to rule. The year 862. In 1862, Russia celebrated the 1000th anniversary of its statehood, and in Novgorod there is simply a monument dedicated to the 1000th anniversary of the country.

In 882, the successor of Rurick, Duke of Oleg, arrived in Kiev, who in fact served as regent of the young boy of Rurick, and Rüric was already dead. He alienated 2 brothers, who seemingly were erstwhile members of the Ruric branch, and thus Russia began to develop, having 2 centres: Kiev and Novgorod.

The next very crucial date in Russia's past is 988. It is the Baptism of Rusi, erstwhile Prince Vladimir, the great-grandson of Rurick, baptized Russia and accepted Orthodoxy—Eastern Christianity. Since then, the centralised Russian state has begun to strengthen. Why? 1 territory, common economical ties, 1 language, and after the baptism of Russia – 1 religion and the power of the prince. The centralised Russian state began to take shape.

However, for various reasons, after the introduction of succession to the throne—also in ancient times, the mediate Ages—by Jarosław the Wise, a small later, after his death, the succession to the throne was complex, passed not straight from father to eldest son, but from the late prince to his brother, and then to sons in different ways. All of this led to fragmentation of Rusi – 1 country that began to take form as one. There's nothing peculiar about it, the same thing happened in Europe. However, the fragmented Russian state became an easy prey to the empire that erstwhile created Genghis-chan. His successors, Batu-chan, came to Russia, plundered almost all cities and destroyed them. The confederate part where, by the way, Kiev was located, any another cities, they simply lost their independence, and northern cities retained part of their sovereignty. They paid tribute to the Orda, but retained part of their sovereignty. And then 1 Russian state began to form from a center in Moscow.

The confederate part of the Russian lands, including Kiev, gradually began to weigh towards the next "magnet" – towards the European center. It was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. They were even called Lithuanian-Russian, as a large part of this country were Rusini. They spoke Old Russian and were Orthodox. But then there was unification – the union of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Poland. A fewer years later, another union was signed in the spiritual sphere, and any Orthodox priests submitted to the pope's authority. Thus these lands became part of the Polish-Lithuanian state.

But Poles have been dealing with the Polishization of this part of the society for decades: they have introduced their language there, they have begun to make the belief that it is not entirely Rusini, that since they live on the edge, they are Ukrainians. Initially, the word “Ukrainian” meant that a individual lives on the outskirts of the state, “at the end of it”, or is actually employed in border service. This did not mean any peculiar cultural group.

So Poles did everything they could to Polishize and fundamentally treated this part of the Russian lands rather harshly, if not cruelly. All of this led to this part of the Russian lands fighting for their rights. And they wrote letters to Warsaw, demanding that they respect their rights to send people here, including Kiev...

T. Carlson: erstwhile did this happen, in what years?

Vladimir Putin: It was in the 13th century.

Now, I'm going to tell you what happened later and I'm going to give you dates so there's no misunderstandings.

And in 1654, and even a small earlier, the people in power in this part of the Russian lands turned to Warsaw, I repeat, demanding that people of Russian origin and Orthodox religion be sent to them. And erstwhile Warsaw fundamentally did not answer them anything and almost seemed to reject these demands they began to address Moscow so that Moscow would take them to themselves.

So you don't think I've come up with anything, I'll give you these documents...

T. Carlson: I don't think you're making anything up, no.

Vladimir Putin: And yet these are papers from the archive, copies. These are Bohdan Chmielnicki's letters, then the man in power in this part of the Russian lands, which we now call Ukraine. He wrote to Warsaw, demanding respect for their rights, and after refusing to compose letters to Moscow, he asked her to take them under the strong hand of the Moscow Tsar. Here [in the folder] are copies of these documents. I'll leave them for you as a good souvenir. There's a translation into Russian, and then delight translate it into English.

Russia refused to accept them immediately as it assumed that the war with Poland would begin. However, in 1654 the Earth Council, which is simply a typical body of the power of the Old Russian state, decided: this part of the Old Russian lands became part of the Moscow kingdom.

As expected, the war with Poland began. This lasted for 13 years, followed by a truce. And just after this act of 1654, which is 32 years later, in my opinion, peace was concluded with Poland, "the eternal peace", as was said at the time. And these lands, the full left bank of Dnieper, including Kiev, went to Russia, and the full right bank of Dnieper remained with Poland.

Then, in the days of Catherine II, Russia restored all its historical lands, including the south and west. All this continued until the revolution. And before planet War I, utilizing these ideas of Ukrainianization, the Austrian General Staff began to actively advance the thought of Ukraine and Ukrainianization. It is clear why: due to the fact that on the eve of the planet War, of course, there was a desire to weaken a possible enemy, a desire to make favourable conditions in the border area. And this view, erstwhile born in Poland, that people surviving in this territory are not full Rusins, and that supposedly a peculiar cultural group, Ukrainians, began to be propagated by the Austrian General Staff.

In the 19th century there were besides theorists of Ukrainian independency who spoke about the request for Ukrainian independence. But it's true, all these “pillars” of Ukrainian independency said that she should have a very good relation with Russia, they insisted on it. However, after the 1917 Revolution, the Bolsheviks tried to reconstruct statehood and civilian war broke out, including with Poland. In 1921, a peace was signed with Poland, under which the western part, on the right bank of Dniepr, again went to Poland.

In 1939, after Poland collaborated with Hitler, and Poland collaborated with Hitler, and Hitler proposed – we have all the papers in the archives – the conclusion of peace, a treaty on relationship and alliance with Poland, however, he demanded that Poland hand over to Germany as the alleged Gdańsk Corridor, which combined the main part of Germany with the Royal and east Prussia. After planet War I, this part of the territory was transferred to Poland and Danzig replaced Gdańsk. Hitler demanded a peaceful surrender, but Poles refused. Nevertheless, they collaborated with Hitler and began sharing Czechoslovakia.

T. Carlson: May I ask? You say that part of Ukraine has been Russian land for hundreds of years. Then why didn't you accept them erstwhile you became president 24 years ago? You besides had a gun. Then why did you wait so long?

Vladimir Putin: I'll tell you now, I'm about to finish this historical information. possibly it's boring, but it explains a lot.

T. Carlson: She's not boring, no.

Vladimir PutinGreat. In that case, I'm very glad you felt that way. Thanks a lot.

So before planet War II, erstwhile Poland worked with Germany, it refused to meet Hitler's demands, but nevertheless participated with Hitler in the division of Czechoslovakia, but due to the fact that it did not quit the Gdańsk Corridor, Poles forced, played besides hard, Hitler to start the Second planet War from them. Why did the war begin on September 1, 1939, with Poland? She was relentless. Hitler had no choice in implementing his plans, starting with Poland.

By the way, the russian Union – I read the archive papers – behaved very honestly and the russian Union asked Poland for approval to send its troops to aid Czechoslovakia. But through the mouth of the then Minister of abroad Affairs of the Republic of Poland it was said that even if russian aircraft were to fly towards Czechoslovakia through the territory of Poland, they would be shot down over the territory of Poland. Whatever. But it is crucial that the war began, and now Poland itself has become a victim of the policy it has pursued towards Czechoslovakia, due to the fact that according to the well-known Protocols of Molotov-Ribbentrop any of these territories went to Russia, including Western Ukraine. Russia under the name of the russian Union thus returned to its historical territories.

After the triumph in the large Patriotic War, as we say, after planet War II, all these territories were yet assigned to Russia, the russian Union. As part of the compensation, Poland should be accepted, it received western lands, originally German – east part of Germany, part of the land, these are the western parts of Poland today. And, of course, again the access to the Baltic Sea was restored, again Danzig, which began to be called in Polish. This is how the situation developed.

At the time of the formation of the russian Union, which was already in 1922, the Bolsheviks began to make the USSR and created russian Ukraine, which had not existed so far.

T. Carlson: That's right.

W. Putin: At the same time, Stalin insisted that these emerging republics should be incorporated as autonomous units, but for any reason the founder of the russian state, Lenin, insisted that they have the right to be separated from the russian Union. And besides for unknown reasons, he gave the rising russian Ukraine with lands, people surviving in these territories, even though they have never been called Ukraine before; for any reason during its formation, all of this was "wrought" into the Ukrainian SRR, covering the full region around the Black Sea, which was adopted during the time of Catherine II and in fact never had any historical relation with Ukraine.

Even if we remember, let's go back to 1654, erstwhile these lands returned to the Russian Empire, there were 3 or 4 modern regions of Ukraine, there was no Black Sea region. There was just nothing to talk about.

T. Carlson: In 1654?

Vladimir Putin: Yes, exactly.

T. Carlson: You have encyclopedic knowledge. But why didn't you talk about it the first 22 years of your presidency?

W. Putin: Thus, russian Ukraine received a immense number of territories that had nothing to do with it, especially the region adjacent to the Black Sea. A long time ago, erstwhile Russia received it as a consequence of the Russian-Turkish wars, it was called fresh Russia. But it's not important. It is crucial that Lenin, the founder of the russian state, created Ukraine precisely like this. And for many decades the Ukrainian SRR developed within the USSR, and the Bolsheviks, besides for unknown reasons, dealt with Ukrainianization. Not only due to the fact that there were immigrants from Ukraine in the leadership of the russian Union, but in general specified a policy was pursued – it was called “rooting”. This active Ukraine and another republics. National languages and national cultures have been introduced, which, of course, is not bad. But that's how russian Ukraine was created.

And after planet War II Ukraine received another part not only of pre-war Polish lands – present Western Ukraine, part of Hungarian lands and part of Romanian lands. any territories were besides picked up by Romania and Hungary, and they, these territories, became part of russian Ukraine and are inactive there. So we have reason to say that, of course, Ukraine in a sense is an artificial state, created by Stalin's will.

T. Carlson: Do you think Hungary has the right to take its land? Can another nations regain their lands and possibly reconstruct Ukraine to the borders of 1654?

Vladimir Putin: I don't know what the boundaries of 1654 are. Stalin's reign is called the Stalinist regime, everyone says there have been many violations of human rights, violations of the rights of another countries. In this sense, it is rather possible, of course, if you do not say that they have the right to do so – to reconstruct these lands, it is understandable...

T. Carlson: Did you tell Orbán that he could recover any of Ukraine's lands?

Vladimir Putin: I never said that. Never, not once. Neither he nor I have even had any conversation about it. But I know for a fact that Hungarians who live there evidently want to return to their historical homeland.

What's more, I'm going to tell a very interesting communicative now, I'm going to make a digression, it's a individual story. Somewhere in the early 1980s, I took a car from Leningrad, from St. Petersburg, and I just went on a journey around the russian Union – via Kiev, stopped in Kiev and then went to Western Ukraine. I entered the city, its name is Beriovo, and there all the names of the towns and villages are in Russian and in an incomprehensible language for me – in Hungarian. In Russian and Hungarian. Not Ukrainian – Russian and Hungarian.

I drive through the village, under the houses there are men in black three-piece suits and black cylinders. I said, are they artists? They tell me, no, they're not artists, they're Hungarians. What are they doing here? It's their land, they live here. All names! In russian times, in the 1980s. They keep Hungarian language, names and all national costumes. They are Hungarians and feel Hungarians. And of course, erstwhile there's now a destabilization...

T. Carlson: Yeah, I think that happens a lot. Most likely many countries were dissatisfied with the change of borders during the 20th century and earlier. But the fact is, earlier, until February 2022, you didn't claim anything like that. And you said that you felt a physical threat from NATO, especially a atomic threat, and that led you to act. Do I realize you correctly?

W. Putin: I realize that my long dialogues are most likely not included in this kind of interviews. That's why I asked at first: Will we have a serious conversation or a show? You said this was a serious conversation. So don't take offense at me, please.

We reached the point where russian Ukraine was created. Then it was 1991 – the collapse of the russian Union. And everything Ukraine received as a gift from Russia “from a generous hand”, she took with her.

And now I'm getting to a very crucial moment. After all, this collapse of the russian Union was actually initiated by Russian leadership. I don't know what the Russian leaders were doing at the time, but I fishy there were a fewer reasons to believe that everything would be okay.

Firstly, I believe that Russian leadership came from the basic principles of relations between Russia and Ukraine. In fact, there was a common language, more than 90% spoke Russian; household ties, all 3rd individual there has any household or friendly ties; a common culture; a common history; yet a common religion; a common presence in 1 country for centuries; the economy is very connected – these are all very fundamental issues. This is all at the heart of the inevitability of our good relations.

The second thing is very important, I want you as an American citizen and your viewers to hear about it too: the erstwhile Russian leadership came out of fact that the russian Union ceased to exist, there are no ideological dividing lines anymore. Russia even voluntarily and on its own initiative agreed to the dissolution of the russian Union, and it turns out that it will be perceived by the alleged "civilized West" as a proposal for cooperation and alliance. This is what Russia expected from both the United States and the alleged collective West as a whole.

There were smart people, including Germany. Egon Bahr was the main political figure of the Social Democratic Party, who personally arose in talks with russian authorities before the dissolution of the russian Union, claiming that a fresh safety strategy in Europe had to be created. Germany needs to be helped to unite, but to make a fresh strategy that will cover the United States, Canada, Russia and another Central European countries. However, NATO has no request to expand. This is what he said: if NATO expands, everything will be the same as during the Cold War, only closer to the borders of Russia. That's all. Grandpa was smart. Nobody listened to him. Moreover, someway he got angry – this conversation is besides in our archives: if, he says, you will not perceive to me, I will never come to Moscow again. They were mad at russian leadership. He was right, everything happened just like he said.

T. Carlson: Yes, of course, his words have worked, you've talked about it many times, I think it's perfectly fair. Many residents of the United States besides believed that relations between Russia and the United States would be average after the collapse of the russian Union. But it did happen the another way around.

However, you never explained why you thought it was so, why it happened so. Yes, the West may be afraid of strong Russia, but the West is not afraid of strong China.

W. Putin: The West is more afraid of strong China than strong Russia, due to the fact that there are 150 million people in Russia, and in China 1 and a half billion, and the Chinese economy is developing leaps – over 5 percent annually, there was even more. But that's adequate for China. Bismarck erstwhile said: the most crucial is potential. China's possible is colossal, they are present the world's first economy in terms of purchasing power parity and economical volume. The United States has been ahead of us for a long time and the pace is increasing.

We're not going to tell who's afraid of who anymore, let's not talk in those categories. Let us talk about the fact that after 1991, erstwhile Russia expected to join the brotherly household of “civilized nations”, no of this happened. You deceived us – by ‘you’, I don’t mean you personally, but the United States – you promised that there would be no NATO expansion to the east, but it happened 5 times, 5 waves of expansion. We have endured everything, we have convinced everything, we have said: there is no need, we are already our own, as they say, bourgeois, we have a marketplace economy, there is no power of the Communist Party, let us come to an agreement.

What is more, I have already talked about this in public – now let's take the era of Jelcin – there was a minute erstwhile “a grey cat ran through”. Earlier, Yeltsyn traveled to the United States, remember, spoke in Congress, and said wonderful words: God bless America (God bless America-PZ). He said everything, they were signals: let us in.

No, erstwhile the events in Yugoslavia began... Earlier, Yeltsyn was praised and praised – as shortly as the events in Yugoslavia began and erstwhile he raised his voice on behalf of the Serbs, and we could not refrain from raising our voice on behalf of the Serbs, in their defence... I get it, there's been complex trials, I get it. But Russia could not refrain from speaking on behalf of the Serbs, due to the fact that the Serbs are besides a peculiar nation, close to us, with Orthodox culture and so on. Well, so many suffering people for generations. Well, it doesn't matter, but it's crucial that Jelcin expressed his support. What did the United States do? In violation of global law and the Charter of the United Nations, they began bombing Belgrade.

The United States released the genie from the bottle. Moreover, what was said erstwhile Russia opposed and expressed its outrage? The United Nations Charter and global law are obsolete. Now everyone is referring to global law, but then they started saying that everything is obsolete, everything needs to be changed.

It is true, but not in this way. Yeah, by the way, they immediately started throwing Jelcin's mud, pointing out that he's an alcoholic, he doesn't understand, he doesn't understand. I assure you he understood everything and made everything clear.

All right. I became president in 2000. I thought: well, that's it, the Yugoslav case is over, we request to effort to reconnect, we request to keep beginning that door where Russia tried to get through. And what's more, I spoke publically about this, I repeat, in a gathering here in the Kremlin with Bill Clinton, the outgoing one—here next to me, in the next room—I told him, I asked him a question: listen, Bill, do you think that if Russia had raised the question of joining NATO, it would have been possible? abruptly he said, you know, it's interesting, I think. And in the evening, erstwhile we met for dinner, he said: you know, I spoke to my people, with my band – no, now it's impossible. You can ask him, I think he'll perceive to our interview and confirm. I would never say anything like that if it hadn't happened. All right, now that's impossible.

T. Carlson: Were you honest then? Would you join NATO?

Vladimir Putin: Look, I asked the question, is it possible or not? And I got an answer: no. If I were dishonest in my desire to know the position of management...

T. Carlson: And if he said yes, would you join NATO?

W. Putin: If he had said yes, there would have been a process of rapprochement that could yet have led to this if we had seen the sincere desire of partners to do so. But it wasn't over. Well, no, no, all right, all right.

T. Carlson: Why do you think? What are the motives? I sense that you feel bitter about it. But why do you think the West rejected you so much? Where does this hostility come from? Why have we failed to improve relations? What were the motives, from your point of view?

Vladimir Putin: You said I was bitter about the answer. No, it's not bitter, it's just a message of fact. We're not a couple of fiancés, bitterness, resentment is not a substance that happens in cases like this. We just realized they're not waiting for us, that's all. All right. But let's build relationships differently, let's look for a common ground. Why have we received specified a negative response, delight ask your leaders. I can only guess why: the country is besides big, has its own opinion and so on. And the United States – I saw them solve problems in NATO...

Let me now give another example, concerning Ukraine. U.S. leaders "press" – and all NATO members vote obediently, even if they don't like something. Now I will tell you about what happened to Ukraine in 2008, although this is the subject of discussion, I will not say anything fresh here.

But then, after all, we tried to build relationships in different ways. For example, there were events in the mediate East, in Iraq, we were very mildly and calmly building relations with the States.

I have repeatedly raised the issue that the United States should not support either separatistism or terrorism in the North Caucasus. But they kept doing it anyway. And political support, information support, financial support, and even military support came from the United States and their satellites in connection with terrorist groups in the Caucasus.

I erstwhile raised this issue with my colleague, including the president of the United States. He says it can't be, do you have evidence? I said yes. I was ready for that conversation, and I gave him the evidence. He looked and you know what he said? I'm sorry, but that's what happened, he said, quote, "I'm gonna kick their asses." We waited and waited for an answer – there was no answer.

I'm telling manager FSB, compose to the CIA, is there a consequence of a conversation with the president? He wrote once, the second and received an answer. The answer is in the archives. The answer came from the CIA: we worked together with the opposition in Russia; we think it is right and we will proceed to work with the opposition. Funny. All right. We realized there would be no conversation.

T. Carlson: Opposition to the Lord?

Vladimir Putin: Of course, in this case we meant separatists, terrorists who fought us in the Caucasus. We were just talking about that. They called it the opposition. It's a second case.

The 3rd case, very important, is the minute of the creation of the American rocket defence system, the beginning. We've been trying a long time to convince the United States not to. Moreover, after Bush Jr's father, Bush Sr., invited me to visit him overseas, there was a very serious conversation with president Bush and his team. I have proposed that the United States, Russia and Europe jointly set up a rocket defence strategy which, in our opinion, unilaterally threatens our security, even though the United States has officially declared it is being created against Iran's rocket threats. This was besides the justification for creating a rocket shield. I suggested that all 3 cooperate – Russia, USA, Europe. They said it was very interesting. They asked me: are you serious? I say absolutely.

T. Carlson: erstwhile was that, what year?

Vladimir Putin: I don't remember. It's easy to find out online erstwhile I was in the U.S. at Bush Senior's invitation. Now it's even easier to find out, I'll tell you from whom.

They told me, that's very interesting. I say: imagine that together we will solve this global strategical task in the field of security. The planet will change. We will most likely have disputes, most likely economical and even political, but we will radically change the world. He says [in response]: yes. They asked me: are you serious? I say, of course. We gotta think about it. I was told. I say, please.

Then the Secretary of defence Gates, erstwhile CIA manager and Secretary of State Rice arrived at the office where we are now talking. Here, at this table, opposite, you see this table, they were sitting on this side. I, the Minister of abroad Affairs, the Minister of Defence of Russia, this is. They told me, yes, we thought, we agree. I say thank God, great. "But with any exceptions."

T. Carlson: So you described twice how American presidents made certain decisions and then their teams derailed those decisions?

Vladimir Putin: That's right. We were yet sent back. I won't tell you the details due to the fact that I don't think it's right, after all, it was a confidential conversation. But the fact is, our proposal has been rejected.

That's erstwhile I said, listen, but then we'll be forced to retaliate. We'll make shock systems that will surely defeat the rocket defence system. The answer was this: we do not do it against you and do what you want, based on the fact that it is not against us or against the United States. I say good. And it's gone. And we've created intercontinental hypersonic systems and we're inactive developing them. In creating hypersonic shock systems we are now ahead of everyone: both the United States and another countries – they are being improved all day.

But we didn't do it, we offered another way, but they pushed us away.

Now about the NATO expansion east. Well, they promised: NATO won't be east, there won't be a centimeter east, as we were told. And then what? They said, well, we didn't put it on paper, so we'll expand. 5 extensions covering the Baltic countries, the full east Europe and so on.

And now I'm going to get to the most crucial thing: we got to Ukraine. In 2008, at the Bucharest summit, they announced that the door to NATO was open to Ukraine and Georgia.

Now let's talk about how decisions are made there. Germany and France seemed against this, as well as any another European countries. But as it turned out later, president Bush, and he's specified a strong man, a strong politician, as they told me later: he put force on us and we were forced to agree. It's fun, just like kindergarten. Where are the guarantees? What kind of kindergarten are these people, who are they? As you can see, they were “pressurised” and agreed. And then they say, Ukraine won't be in NATO, you know. I say I don't understand; I know you agreed in 2008, but why don't you agree in the future? "Well then, they pressed us." I say, and why they won't press you in the future – and you will agree again. Well, that's nonsense. I just don't realize who I'm talking to. We're ready to talk. But who? Where are the guarantees? None.

This means that they began to make the territory of Ukraine. Whatever was there, I told the full prehistory of how the territory was developing, what relations were with Russia. all second or 3rd individual there has always had something to do with Russia. And during the elections in independent, sovereign Ukraine, which gained independency as a consequence of the Declaration of Independence, and by the way it is written that Ukraine is simply a neutral state, and in 2008, the door, or gates to NATO, abruptly opened to it. It's a movie! We didn't date like this. So all the presidents who came to power in Ukraine were based on an electorate that had a good attitude to Russia 1 way or another. This southeast Ukraine is simply a large number of people. And this electorate, which was affirmative for Russia, was very hard to "break."

Viktor Yanukovych came to power and how: for the first time he won after president Kuczma's word – they organized a 3rd circular which is not foreseen in the Constitution of Ukraine. This is simply a coup. Imagine individual in the U.S. didn't like it.

T. Carlson: 2014?

Vladimir Putin: No, before that. No, no, that was before. After president Kuczmie, the election was won by Viktor Yanukovych. However, his opponents did not recognise this victory, the United States supported the opposition and appointed a 3rd round. What is this? This is simply a coup. The U.S. backed him up, and as a consequence of the 3rd circular he came to power... Imagine that in the United States individual did not like something – they organized a 3rd round, which is not foreseen by the U.S. Constitution. But they did it there [in Ukraine]. All right, Viktor Yushchenko, considered pro-Western politics, came to power. All right, but we besides made contact with him, he went to Moscow, we went to Kiev, and I went. We met in an informal atmosphere. Western Prowest is Western Prowest – so be it. So be it, but people are working. The situation should make internally, in independent Ukraine itself. After his leadership of the country, the situation deteriorated and yet Viktor Yanukovych came to power.

Maybe he was not the best president and politician – I don't know, I don't want to justice – but there was a question of association with the European Union. However, we have always been very loyal to this: please. But erstwhile we read this association agreement, it turned out to be a problem for us, due to the fact that we have a free trade region with Ukraine, open customs borders, and Ukraine, according to this association, had to open its borders to Europe – and everything would flow to our market.

We said no, then it won't work, then we'll close our borders with Ukraine, our customs boundaries. Yanukovych began to calculate how much Ukraine would win, and how much it would lose, and told its contractors in Europe: I must think again before signing the agreement. As shortly as he said so, among the West-supported opposition began destructive actions that led to Majdan and the coup in Ukraine.

T. Carlson: So he traded more with Russia than with the European Union, Ukraine?

Vladimir Putin: Of course. This is not even about the volume of trade, but about something more. It is about cooperative links, on which the full Ukrainian economy was based. Cooperation ties between companies have been very tight since the russian Union. There 1 company produced components for final assembly in both Russia and Ukraine and vice versa. There were very close ties.

They carried out a coup, although we from the United States, I am not going to go into item now, I think it is not true, but it is said: you will calm Yanukovych there, and we will calm the opposition; let everything go through a political agreement. We said, "Well, we agree, let's do it this way." Yanukovych did not take advantage, as requested by the Americans, of either the armed forces or the police. And the armed opposition in Kiev carried out a coup. What does that mean? How do you mean? – I wanted to ask the then United States leadership.

T. Carlson: With who?

Vladimir Putin: With CIA support, of course. An organization I realize you erstwhile wanted to work for. possibly thank God they didn't take you. Although this is simply a serious organization, I realize that my erstwhile colleagues, in a sense, due to the fact that I worked on the First Chief Executive Board, are an interview by the russian Union. They were always our opponents. Work is work.

Technically, they did everything right, they achieved what they wanted – they changed the government. But from a political point of view, this is simply a immense mistake. Here, of course, political leadership has not done its occupation properly. Political leaders should have predicted what this would lead to.

So in 2008, Ukraine's door to NATO was opened. In 2014, they carried out a coup, while those who did not recognise the coup, and this coup, began to be persecuted, created a threat to Crimea, which we were forced to take under our protection. They started the war in Donbasa in 2014, utilizing aviation and artillery against civilians. After all, this is where it all started. There is simply a video recording of aircraft hitting Donetsk from above. They undertook 1 military operation on a large scale, and the other, which resulted in failure – they are inactive preparing. And all of this is due to the military takeover of this territory and beginning the door to NATO.

So how can we not be afraid about what is happening? For our part, it would be criminal carelessness – and that would be it. It was simply the political leadership of the States that led us to a border that we could no longer cross due to the fact that it would destruct Russia itself. And then we could not throw our fellow believers, and indeed part of the Russian nation, under this military machine.

T. Carlson: That means it happened 8 years before the conflict began. And what caused this conflict erstwhile you decided that this step should be taken?

Vladimir Putin: Initially the conflict was provoked by a coup d'état in Ukraine.

By the way, representatives of 3 European countries came: Germany, Poland and France – and were guarantors of the signed agreement between the Yanukovych government and the opposition. They signed as guarantors. Nevertheless, the opposition carried out a coup, and all these countries pretended not to remember anything about being the guarantors of a peaceful solution. They put it in the oven right away, no 1 remembers.

I do not know whether the United States knows anything about this agreement of opposition with the authorities and about the 3 guarantors who, alternatively of bringing the full process into the political field, did not, they supported the coup. Although it didn't make sense, believe me. due to the fact that president Yanukovych agreed with everything and was ready for an early election in which he had no chance of winning, frankly, there was no chance. Everybody knew that.

But why the coup, why the victims? Why threats to Crimea? Why did they start the operation at Donbasa? That's what I don't understand. That's where the miscalculation lies. The CIA has completed its task of carrying out a coup. And in my opinion, 1 of the Deputy Secretary of State said that they had spent even a large sum, almost 5 billion [dollars]. But political mistake is enormous. Why should it have been done? The same could be done, only legally, without victims, without starting war and without losing Crimea. And we wouldn't lift a finger if it wasn't for those bloody events in Maidan, we never would have thought of that.

Because we agreed that after the fall of the russian Union everything should look like this – within the limits of the union republics. We agreed. But we never agreed to grow NATO, and even more so we never agreed that Ukraine would be in NATO. We didn't agree there would be NATO bases there without talking to us. We only asked for decades: don't do it, don't do it.

What caused fresh events? Firstly, the leadership of Ukraine present stated that they would not implement the Minsk agreements, which, as is known, were signed after the events of 2014 in Minsk, where a plan for a peaceful resolution of Donbasa was outlined. No, the leadership of present-day Ukraine, the abroad Minister, all another officials, and then the president himself declared that they did not like anything in these Minsk agreements. In another words, they're not going to fill them out. And the erstwhile leaders of Germany and France present said straight – a year and a half ago – to the full planet that they had signed these Minsk agreements, but never intended to implement them. We were just led by the nose.

T. Carlson: Have you spoken to the Secretary of State and the President? possibly they were afraid to talk to you. And did you tell them that if they continued to pump Ukraine with weapons, then you would take action?

Vladimir Putin: We talked about it all the time. We have called on the leaders of the United States and European countries to halt this process immediately and to guarantee the implementation of the Minsk agreements. Honestly, I didn't know how to do it, but I was ready to do it. They are hard for Ukraine (the terms of Minsk agreements -PZ), there are many elements of independency for Donbas, it was provided for these territories, it is true. But I was absolutely certain of it, I will tell you now: I sincerely believed that if we could convince those people who live in Donbasa – they inactive had to be persuaded to return to the Ukrainian statehood – then gradually, gradually, the wounds will heal. Gradually, erstwhile this part of the territory returns to economical life, to the general social environment, erstwhile pensions, social benefits are paid – all gradually, gradually, it will accumulate. No, no 1 wanted to, everyone wanted to solve the problem only with military force. But we couldn't let that happen.

And everything led to this situation erstwhile in Ukraine it was announced: no, we will not [do] anything. We started preparing for war. They began the war in 2014. Our goal is to halt this war. And we didn't start it in 2022, it's an effort to halt it.

T. Carlson: Do you think you managed to halt her now? Have you achieved your goals?

W. Putin: No, we have not yet achieved our objectives, due to the fact that 1 of the objectives is denazification. This includes the prohibition of any neo-Nazi movement. This is 1 of the problems that we discussed during the negotiation process, which ended in Istanbul at the beginning of last year, but ended not at our initiative, due to the fact that we, in peculiar Europeans, said: it is essential to make conditions for the final signature of the documents. My colleagues in France and Germany said: “How do you imagine them signing an agreement: with a weapon to their head?You should retreat troops from Kiev”. I say good. We have withdrawn our troops from Kiev.

As shortly as we withdrew our troops from Kiev, our Ukrainian negotiators immediately threw out all our agreements in Istanbul and prepared for a long armed confrontation with the aid of the United States and their satellites in Europe. This is how the situation developed. And that's what she looks like now.

T. Carlson: What is denazification? What does that mean?

Vladimir Putin: I just want to talk about it now. That's a very crucial question.

Denasification. After gaining independence, Ukraine began to search – as any analysts in the West say – its identity. And she couldn't have come up with anything better than putting this identity at the forefront of the fake heroes who worked with Hitler.

I already told you that at the beginning of the 19th century, erstwhile the theorists of independency and sovereignty of Ukraine appeared, they assumed that independent Ukraine should have a very good and good relation with Russia. But due to historical development, due to the fact that erstwhile these territories were part of the Republic of both Nations, the Ukrainians were rather brutally persecuted, confiscated, tried to destruct this identity, behaved very cruelly, all of this remained in the memory of people. erstwhile planet War II broke out, part of this highly nationalist elite began to cooperate with Hitler, believing that Hitler would bring them freedom. German troops, even SS troops, commissioned the dirtiest work of extermination of Polish population, judaic population, collaborators who collaborated with Hitler. Hence this brutal massacre of Polish, judaic and Russian people. The erstwhile were well-known: Bandera, Szuchewycz. It was these people who became national heroes. That's the problem. And we are told all the time: in another countries there is nationalism and neo-Naziism. Yes, there are sprouts, but we crush them, and in another countries they crush them. But in Ukraine – no, in Ukraine national heroes were made of them, monuments are put on them, they hang on flags, their names shout out crowds walking with torches, as in Nazi Germany. These are the people who murdered Poles, Jews and Russians. This practice and explanation must be put to an end.

Of course, all nation that grew up is considered a part of the nation... I say it's part of a common Russian nation, they say no, we're a separate nation. Good, good. If 1 considers himself a separate nation, he has the right to do so. But not based on Nazism, Nazi ideology.

T. Carlson: Will you be satisfied with the territory you already have?

Vladimir Putin: I'll finish now. You asked a question about neo-Nazism and denazification.

The president of Ukraine came to Canada – this is widely known, but in the West silenced – and was portrayed in the Canadian Parliament by a man who, as the president of Parliament said, fought against the Russians during planet War II. Well, who fought the Russians during planet War II? Hitler and his minions. It turned out that this man served in SS troops, personally killed Russians, Poles and Jews. This dirty work was done by SS troops formed from Ukrainian nationalists. The president of Ukraine stood up with the full Canadian parliament and applauded this man. How can you imagine that? Incidentally, the president of Ukraine himself is judaic due to nationality.

T. Carlson: What are you gonna do about it? Hitler's been dead for 80 years, Nazi Germany no longer exists, that's true. You say you want to extinguish this fire of Ukrainian nationalism. How do we do that?

Vladimir Putin: Listen to me. Your question is very subtle... And why don't I tell you what I think? Won't you be offended?

T. Carlson: Of course not.

W. Putin: It would seem that this question is subtle, very nasty.

You say Hitler's not many years old, 80 years old. But his work lives on. There are people who murdered Jews, Russians and Poles. And the President, present president of today's Ukraine, applauds him in the Canadian Parliament, standing ovation! How can we say that we have completely eradicated this ideology erstwhile what we see is happening today? That is denazification in our understanding. We request to get free of those people who leave this explanation and practice in life and effort to preserve it – that is denazification. That's what we mean.

T. Carlson: OK. Of course I do not defend Nazism or neo-Naziism. But my question is practical: you don't control the full country, and I think you want to control everything. But how, then, can ideology, culture, certain feelings, past in a country that is not controlled? How do we accomplish this?

W. Putin: And you know, no substance how unusual it may seem to you, during the negotiations in Istanbul, we agreed, however, that – everything is written – that Ukraine will not be cultivated neo-Nazism, including that it will be prohibited at legislative level.

Mr. Carlson, we agreed to this. It turns out that this can be done during the negotiation process. And there is nothing humiliating for Ukraine as a modern civilized state. Can any country advance Nazi propaganda? Isn't that right? That's all.

T. Carlson: Will there be negotiations? And why have there not so far been specified negotiations – peace negotiations – on resolving the conflict in Ukraine?

Vladimir Putin: They were, they reached a very advanced phase of agreeing positions in a complex process, but nevertheless they were almost completed. But after withdrawing troops from Kiev, as I said, the another side, Ukraine, rejected all these agreements and took into account instructions from Western countries – Europe, the United States – to fight Russia to the very end.

Moreover, the president of Ukraine legally banned negotiations with Russia. He signed a decree prohibiting all negotiations with Russia. But how will we negociate if he forbids himself and forbids everyone? We know he's putting forward any ideas about this settlement. But to agree on something, you gotta have a dialogue, right?

T. Carlson: Yes, but you won't talk to the president of Ukraine, you'll talk to the president of the United States. erstwhile was the last time you spoke to Joe Biden?

Vladimir Putin: I don't remember talking to him. I don't remember.

T. Carlson: Don't you remember?

W. Putin: No, why, should I remember everything or what? I have quite a few things to do. We have interior political issues.

T. Carlson: But he's backing the war you're fighting.

W. Putin: Yes, he does, but erstwhile I spoke to him, it was, of course, before the start of a peculiar military operation and, by the way, I told him then – I will not be in detail, I never do it – but I told him then: I think you are making a immense mistake on a historical scale, supporting everything that happens there, in Ukraine, pushing Russia away. I told him about it – by the way, I told him many times. I think it will be correct – here I will limit myself to this.

T. Carlson: What did he say?

Vladimir Putin: Ask him. For you, it is simple: you are a citizen of the United States, go and ask him. It's inappropriate for me to comment on our conversation.

T. Carlson: But you haven't spoken to him since February 2022?

Vladimir Putin: No, we didn't. But we have any contacts. By the way, do you remember erstwhile I told you about my proposal to work together on the rocket defence system?

T. Carlson: Yeah.

Vladimir Putin: You can ask everyone – thank God, everyone is alive and well. Both the erstwhile president and Condoleezza [Rice] are alive and well and, in my opinion, Mr Gates and the current CIA director, Mr Burns, were then ambassadors to Russia, in my opinion a very successful ambassador. They all witness these conversations. Ask them.

The same is actual in this case: if you are curious in what president Biden said to me, ask him. Anyway, he and I were talking about it.

T. Carlson: I realize that perfectly, but from the outside, for an outside observer, it would seem that all of this could consequence in a situation where the full planet will be on the brink of war, or possibly even atomic attacks. Why don't you call Biden and say, "Let's kind this out.

W. Putin: What should we decide? Everything is very simple. We, I repeat, have contacts through different departments. I will tell you what we say about this substance and what we tell the leaders of the United States: if you truly want to halt the war, you gotta halt the arms supply – everything will end in a fewer weeks, that's all, and then you can communicate with certain conditions, so before you do, stop.

What's easier? Why should I call him? What to talk about and what to ask? "Do you intend to supply Ukraine with specified weapons? Oh, I'm scared, I'm scared, don't deliver. Is there anything to talk about?

T. Carlson: Do you think NATO is afraid that this could turn into a planet war or even a atomic conflict?

W. Putin: Anyway, they talk about it and effort to intimidate their population with an imaginary Russian threat. It's obvious. And reasoning people – not average people, but reasoning people, analysts, engaged in real politics, just smart people – realize that this is simply a forgery. The Russian threat is fucked.

T. Carlson: Do you mean the threat of Russian invasion of Poland or Latvia? Can you imagine the script in which you send Russian troops to Poland?

W. Putin: Only in 1 case: if there is an attack on Russia from Poland. Why? due to the fact that we have no business in Poland or Latvia – nowhere. What do we request it for? We just don't have any interests. Just threats.

T. Carlson: The argument – I think you know well – is: yes, he invaded Ukraine, he has territorial claims to the full continent. Are you saying clearly that you do not have specified territorial claims?

Vladimir Putin: This is completely excluded. There is no request to be an analyst: immersing in a global war is contrary to common sense. And global war will bring all mankind to the brink of destruction. It's obvious.

There are, of course, deterrents. They're inactive scaring us all: next day Russia will usage tactical atomic weapons, next day will usage them no, day after tomorrow. So what? These are just bogeymen for average people, designed to draw extra money from American and European taxpayers in a confrontation with Russia at the Ukrainian theatre of war. The goal is to maximise the weakening of Russia.

T. Carlson: One elder senator, Chuck Schumer, I believe, said yesterday: we must proceed to finance Ukraine, otherwise American soldiers will yet gotta fight in Ukraine in return for Ukraine. How do you feel about that?

Vladimir Putin: It's provocation, and it's inexpensive provocation. I don't realize why American soldiers gotta fight in Ukraine. There are mercenaries from the United States. The most mercenaries come from Poland, in second place mercenaries from the United States, in 3rd place are mercenaries from Georgia. If anyone wants to send regular troops, it will surely put humanity on the brink of a very serious global conflict. It's obvious.

Does the United States request this? Why? Thousands of miles from the country! Don't you have anything to do there? You have quite a few problems at the border, problems with migration, problems with public debt – over $33 trillion. There is nothing to do – do you gotta fight in Ukraine?

Would it not be better to come to an agreement with Russia? To come to an agreement, already knowing the situation that is unfolding today, knowing that Russia will fight for its interests to the end, and knowing it, in fact return to common sense, start to respect our country, its interests and search solutions? I think it's a much smarter and more rational solution.

T. Carlson: Who blew up Nord Stream?

Vladimir Putin: You, of course. (Laughter)

T. Carlson: I was busy that day. I didn't blow up Nord Stream.

Vladimir Putin: You may personally have an alibi, but the CIA has no alibi.

T. Carlson: Do you have evidence that NATO or the CIA did this?

W. Putin: You know, I'm not gonna go into detail, but in cases like this, you always say, "Look for individual who's interested." But in this case, you gotta look not only for individual who is interested, but besides individual who can. due to the fact that there may be many interested, but not everyone can go down to the Baltic and make this explosion. These 2 elements must be linked: who is curious and who can.

T. Carlson: But I don't rather understand. It is the largest act of industrial terrorism in history, and besides the largest CO2 emissions into the atmosphere. But given the fact that you and your intelligence services have evidence, why don't you introduce them and win this propaganda war?

W. Putin: It is very hard to defeat the United States in the propaganda war, as the United States controls all planet media and many Europeans. US funds are the eventual beneficiary of the largest European media. Don't you know that? That's why you can get active in this job, but it's, as they say, more costly to you. We can simply uncover our sources of information, but we will not accomplish results. For the full world, it is clear what happened and even American analysts talk straight about it. Right.

T. Carlson: Yes, but the question is – you have worked in Germany, it is widely known, and Germany understands perfectly well that their NATO partners did it, of course, it has struck the German economy – why are the Germans silent? That makes me wonder: why didn't the Germans say anything about it?

Vladimir Putin: I'm surprised, too. But the German leaders present are not guided by national interests, but by the interests of the collective West, otherwise it is hard to explain the logic of their actions or inactivity. It's not just about Nord Stream 1, which was blown up. Nord Stream 2 was damaged, but 1 tube is alive and well and can supply gas to Europe, but Germany does not open it. We're ready, please.

There is another way through Poland, Jamał – Europe is called, and a large flow can be carried out. Poland closed it, but Poland uses Germans, receiving money from pan-European funds, and Germany is the main donor of these pan-European funds. Germany feeds Poland to any degree . And this 1 closed the road to Germany. Why? I don't understand.

Ukraine, which Germany delivers arms and gives money. Germany is the second sponsor of financial assistance to Ukraine after the United States. 2 gas routes run through Ukraine. They chose 1 way and just shut it down, Ukrainians. Open the second route, and delight get gas from Russia. They don't open.

Why not say: “Listen, boys, we give you money and weapons. Unscrew the valve, please, let the gas from Russia flow for us. In Europe, we buy liquefied gas at advanced prices, which reduces our competitiveness and the economy to zero. Do you want us to give you money? Let us be normally, let our economy earn, we give you money from there.” No, they don't. Why? Ask them. (He knocks on the table.) What's here, and what's in their heads is 1 and the same (it's most likely an empty sound? – PZ). People there are very incompetent.

T. Carlson: Perhaps the planet is now divided into 2 hemispheres: 1 with inexpensive energy, the another not.

I want to ask the question: the planet is now a multipolar world, – Can you describe alliances, blocks, who do you think is on which side?

Vladimir Putin: Look, the Lord said the planet is divided into 2 hemispheres. The head is divided into 2 hemispheres: 1 is liable for 1 area of activity, the another is more creative and so on. But it's inactive 1 head. The planet needs to be united so that safety is shared alternatively than designed for this "golden billion". And then – only in this case – the planet will be stable, balanced and predictable. And as long as the head is divided into 2 parts, it is simply a disease, a serious illness. The planet is going through a period of severe illness.

But it seems to me that, among another things, due to honest journalism – they [journalists] work like doctors – possibly they can someway combine it all.

T. Carlson: Let me give you 1 example. The US dollar has united the full planet in many ways. Do you think the dollar will vanish as a reserve currency? How did sanctions change the place of the dollar in the world?

W. Putin: You know, this is 1 of the most serious strategical mistakes of the United States political leadership – utilizing the dollar as a abroad policy instrument of combat. The dollar is the basis of the power of the United States. I think everyone understands this: no substance how much dollars you print, they fly around the world. Inflation in the US is minimal: in my opinion, 3 percent, about 3.4, which is totally acceptable to the US. And of course they print forever. What does a debt of 33 trillion say? That's the emissions.

Nevertheless, it is the main weapon holding US power in the world. erstwhile political leaders decided to usage the dollar as a political tool, they attacked this American power. I don't want to usage any non-literary expressions, but it's stupid and a immense mistake.

Look what's happening in the world. Even among U.S. allies, dollar reserves are presently decreasing. Everyone looks at what's going on and starts looking for ways to defend themselves. However, if the United States applies specified restrictive measures to any countries, specified as reducing payments, freezing assets, etc., it is simply a immense alarm and a signal to the full world.

What happened here? By 2022, around 80% of payments in Russian abroad trade were made in dollars and euro. At the same time, dollars accounted for about 50 percent of our accounts with 3rd countries, and now, in my opinion, there is only 13 percent left. But we didn't ban the dollar, we didn't search it. The United States has decided to cut our dollar payments. I think it's a complete nonsense, you know, from the point of view of the interests of the United States itself, American taxpayers. due to the fact that it strikes the American economy and undermines the strength of the United States in the world.

Incidentally, yuan payments were about 3 percent. Now we pay 34% in rubles and about the same, due to the fact that just over 34% in yuan.

Why did the United States do this? I can only attribute this to arrogance. They most likely thought everything would collapse, but nothing collapsed. What's more, look, another countries, including oil-producing countries, are starting to talk and are already doing so by paying for oil sales in yuan. Do you realize this is happening or not? Does anyone realize that in the United States? What are you doing? You're cutting... Ask all experts, all smart and reasoning individual in the United States: what is simply a dollar for the US? You kill him alone.

T. Carlson: I think that's a truly fair assessment.

Next question. possibly you've turned 1 colonial power into another, but milder? possibly today's BRICS threatens to dominate a nicer colonial power, or China? Do you think it's good for sovereignty? Does that bother you?

Vladimir Putin: We know these bogeymen very well. It's a bogeyman. We're Chinese neighbors. Neighbors, like close relatives, do not choose. We have a border with them thousands of kilometers. That's one.

Second, we are accustomed to surviving together for centuries.

Thirdly, the Chinese doctrine of abroad policy is non-aggressive, the Chinese thought of abroad policy always seeks compromise and we see it.

The next point is this. They tell us this all the time, and now the Lord is trying to present this horror in a mild form, but yet it is the same scarecrow: the volume of cooperation with China is growing. The rate of increase in cooperation between China and Europe is higher than the rate of increase in cooperation with the Russian Federation. Ask Europeans: are they not afraid? possibly they're scared, I don't know, but they're trying to enter the Chinese marketplace at all costs, especially erstwhile they're facing economical problems now. And Chinese companies get the European market.

And is there a tiny presence of Chinese business in the United States? Yes, political decisions are that they are trying to limit cooperation with China. Mr. Tucker, you're doing this in your own way: limiting your cooperation with China, doing it in your own way. This is simply a delicate area, and there are no simple linear solutions here, as is the case with the dollar.

Therefore, before introducing any illegal sanctions, which are illegal from the point of view of the Charter of the United Nations, it is crucial to consider well. In my opinion, those who make decisions have a problem with that.

T. Carlson: You just said that today's planet would be much better if there were no 2 competing alliances. possibly the current American administration, as you say, is against you, but possibly the next administration in the United States, the government after Joe Biden, will want to establish a relation with you, and you will want to establish a relation with her? possibly it doesn't matter.

Vladimir Putin: I'll be right back.

But ending the answer to the erstwhile question. We have $200 billion, together with my colleague, friend, president Xi Jinping, we have set ourselves the goal of achieving $200 billion in trade with China this year. And we crossed that line. According to our data, this is already 230 billion, according to Chinese statistic - 240 billion dollars, if you number everything in dollars, are trading with China.

And a very crucial thing: we have sustainable trade flows that complement the high-tech sector, energy and discipline development. It's a very balanced turnover.

With respect to the full BRICS – Russia became president of BRICS this year – the BRICS countries are developing at a very fast pace.

Look, God forbid we make a mistake, but in 1992, I think the G7 countries' share of the planet economy was 47%, and in 2022 fell to about 30%. The share of BRICS countries in 1992 was only 16%, but now exceeds the level of "seven". This has nothing to do with any events in Ukraine. The trends in planet improvement and the global economy are as I have just mentioned, and this is inevitable. It will proceed to happen: like sunrise, you cannot prevent it, you gotta adapt to it.

How do the United States adapt? By force: sanctions, pressures, bombings, usage of armed forces. This has to do with overconfidence. People in your political elite do not realize that the planet is changing under nonsubjective circumstances, and you gotta make the right decisions competently, in time, in time, to keep your level, sorry, even if individual wants the level of dominance. specified gross actions, including, say, Russia and another countries, lead to the other result. It's an apparent fact that has already become apparent today.

You asked me now: will another leader come and make a difference? This isn't about the leader, not the personality of a peculiar person. I had a very good relationship, say, with Bush. I know he was portrayed in the U.S. as a peasant who didn't realize much. I assure you, it's not. I think he's made quite a few mistakes about Russia, too. I told you about 2008 and the decision made in Bucharest to open the door to NATO Ukraine and so on. It happened with him, he put force on the Europeans.

But in general, on a human level, I had a very good and good relation with him. He is not dumber than any another American, Russian or European politician. I assure you he understood what he was doing, just like the others. Trump and I had a very individual relationship.

It is not about the personality of the leader – it is about the temper of the elite. If the thought of dominance prevails in American society at any cost and with force, nothing will change – it will only get worse. And if it comes to the realization that the planet is changing under nonsubjective circumstances and we request to be able to adapt to them on time, utilizing the advantages that the United States has to this day, then most likely something can change.

Look, the Chinese economy has become the world's first economy in terms of purchasing power parity, in terms of size it has already overtaken the United States. Then the USA, then India – 1.5 billion people, then Japan and Russia in 5th place. In the last year, Russia has become the first economy in Europe, despite all sanctions and restrictions. Is that average from your point of view? Sanctions, restrictions, non-payments in dollars, exclusion from SWIFT, sanctions against our oil ships, sanctions against aircraft – sanctions in everything and everywhere. The most sanctions in the planet apply to Russia. At that time we became the first economy in Europe.

The tools utilized by the United States do not work. Well, we gotta figure out what to do. If this awareness reaches the ruling elite, yes, then the first individual in the state will act in anticipation of what voters and decision-makers at different levels anticipate from it. Then something can change.

T. Carlson: You describe 2 different systems, you say the leader acts in the interests of voters, but at the same time any decisions are made by ruling classes. You've run the country for many years. Who do you think makes decisions in America with your experience?

W. Putin: I don't know. America is simply a complex country, so on the 1 hand conservative, on the another hand rapidly changing. It's not easy for us to figure it out.

Who makes the choices? Can this be understood erstwhile each state has its own legislation, each state regulates itself and individual can be excluded from the state-level elections. It's a two-stage electoral system, and it's very hard for us to understand. Of course, there are 2 parties: Republicans and Democrats. And within this organization system, there are centres that make decisions and prepare them.

Well, look, why do I think that after the collapse of the russian Union specified a vicious, primitive, completely groundless policy of force was carried out towards Russia? After all, it is simply a policy of pressure. NATO expansion, support for separatists in the Caucasus, creation of a rocket defence strategy – all elements of pressure. Pressure, pressure, pressure... Then Ukraine was dragged into NATO. It's all pressure, pressure. Why?

I think that besides because, in comparative terms, surplus production capacity was created. During the fight against the russian Union, there were many different centres and specialists from the russian Union who could do nothing else. They seemed to convince political leaders: they must proceed to hit Russia, effort to break it down even more, make respective quasi-state actors in this territory and subdue it in a divided form, exploit their combined possible for a future fight against China. This is simply a mistake, including the excessive possible of those who worked to face the russian Union. This must be disposed of – new, fresh forces must emerge, people who look to the future and realize what is happening in the world.

See how Indonesia is developing! 600 million people. Where can we get distant from this? Nowhere. 1 has to presume that Indonesia will join, already join the club of the world's leading economies, no substance how it will be – whether anyone likes it or not.

Yes, we realize and are aware that in the United States, despite all economical problems, there is inactive a average situation and decent economical growth – in my opinion, GDP growth of 2.5%.

However, if we guarantee the future, we must change our approach to what is changing. As I said, the planet will proceed to change no substance how the events in Ukraine end. The planet is changing. In the United States alone, experts compose that the United States is gradually changing its position in the planet – your experts compose themselves, I read them. The question is, how will this happen: painfully, rapidly or gently, gradually? And this is written by people who are not anti-American – they just follow the improvement trends in the world. That's all. In order to measure and change policies, we request people who think, look to the future, can analyse and urge certain decisions at the level of political leadership.

T. Carlson: I gotta ask. You have clearly said that the enlargement of NATO is simply a violation of promises and a threat to your country. But before you sent troops to Ukraine, at a safety conference the vice president of the United States supported the president of Ukraine's desire to join NATO. Do you think this has besides triggered war?

Vladimir Putin: I repeat: we have repeatedly proposed to search solutions to the problems that arose in Ukraine after the 2014 coup, by peaceful methods. But nobody listened. Moreover, Ukrainian leadership, under the full control of the United States, abruptly announced that it would not implement Minsk agreements – they did not like anything there – and continues military activity in this territory. Parallel territory it was developed by NATO military structures under the cover of various training and retraining centers. Basically, they started building bases there. That's all.

In Ukraine, it was announced that the Russians were an untitled nation, while passing laws limiting the laws of nontitled nations. Ukraine. Ukraine, having received in a gift from the Russian people all these southeast territories, abruptly announced that the Russians in this territory are an untitled nation. Is that normal? All this together led to the decision to end the war, initiated by neo-Nazis in Ukraine in 2014, by an armed method.

T. Carlson: Do you think Zelenski is free to negociate a solution to this conflict?

W. Putin: I don't know. There are details, of course, I'm hard to judge. But I think it was anyway. His father fought fascists, Nazis during planet War II, I erstwhile talked to him about it. I said: “Volodya, what are you doing? Why are you supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine present erstwhile your father fought Fascism? He is simply a frontline soldier.” I won't say what he said is simply a separate subject, and I think it's wrong.

But erstwhile it comes to freedom of choice – why not? He came to power in consequence to Ukrainian people's expectations that he would bring Ukraine to peace. He talked about it – he won the election with a immense advantage. But in my opinion, erstwhile he came to power, he realized 2 things. Firstly, it is better not to argue with neo-Nazis and nationalists, due to the fact that they are aggressive and very active – you can anticipate everything from them. And secondly, the West under the leadership of the United States supports them and will always support those who fight Russia – it is profitable and safe. So he took the right position, even though he promised his nation the end of the war in Ukraine. He tricked his constituents.

T. Carlson: Do you think now, in February 2024, he has the freedom to talk to your government and effort to aid his country in any way? Can he even do it himself?

Vladimir Putin: Why not? He thinks he's the head of state, won the election. Although we in Russia believe that everything that happened after 2014, the main origin of power is simply a coup d'état and in this sense even today's government has flaws. However, he considers himself president and in this function he is recognized by the United States, the full of Europe and almost the remainder of the world. Why not? He can.

We were negotiating with Ukraine in Istanbul, we agreed, he knew it. Moreover, the head of the negotiating group, Mr Arachamia, I believe, is his name, inactive at the head of the faction of the ruling party, the President's organization in the Council. He is inactive at the head of the presidential faction in the Council – he inactive sits there in the parliament of the country. He even put his first signature on the paper I'm telling you about. But then he publically stated to the full world: “We were ready to sign this document, but Mr Johnson, then British Prime Minister, came to talk us out of it and said that it was better to fight Russia. They'll give us everything we can so we can return what we lost erstwhile we clashed with Russia. And we agreed with this proposal.” See, his message has been published. He said it in public.

Can they come back to this or not? Here's the question: do they want it or not? And then the president of Ukraine issued a decree prohibiting negotiations with us. Tell him to revoke this decree and that's it. We never refused to negotiate. We keep hearing: is Russia ready, ready? Yeah, we didn't say no! They publically refused. Well, have him revoke his decree and negotiate. We never said no.

And the fact that they have succumbed to demands or instigations from erstwhile British Prime Minister Johnson seems absurd and very, very sad to me. Because, as Mr Arachamia said, “a year and a half ago, we could have stopped this war, but the British convinced us and refused”. Where is Mr. Johnson now? And the war is on.

T. Carlson: That's a good question. Why would he do that?

Vladimir Putin: And hell knows, I don't understand. There was a general agreement. For any reason, everyone has the illusion that Russia can be defeated on the battlefield – out of arrogance, out of a heartbeat, but not due to reason.

T. Carlson: You described Russia's ties to Ukraine, you described Russia as an Orthodox country, you talked about it. What does that mean for you? You are the leader of a Christian country, as you describe yourself. How does that affect you?

W. Putin: It is known, as I said, in 988 Prince Włodzimierz was baptized, he himself was baptized following the example of his grandmother, Princess Olga, then baptized his team, and then gradually, for respective years, baptized all of Russia. It was a long process – from Gentiles to Christians, it lasted many years. But yet it is Orthodox, east Christianity, profoundly rooted in the consciousness of the Russian people.

When Russia expanded and absorbed another nations professing Islam, Buddhism, and Judaism, Russia was always very loyal to people professing another religions. That's her strength. It's absolutely clear.

And the fact is that in all the religions of the planet that I was just talking about and which are the conventional religions of the Russian Federation, in fact the main thesis, the main values are very similar, if not the same. The Russian authorities have always taken large care of the culture and religion of the nations that came to the Russian Empire. This, in my opinion, is the basis for both the safety and stableness of the Russian state. It's statehood. due to the fact that all nations in Russia mostly consider it their homeland.

For example, if people decision to you from Latin America or Europe – an example even clearer and understandable – people come to you, but they besides come to you or to European countries from their historical homeland. And people who profess different religions in Russia respect Russia as their Homeland – no another Homeland. We're together, he's a large family. And our conventional values are very similar. erstwhile I said “this is 1 large family”, but everyone has a household and that is what our society is based on. And if we say that the Homeland and the circumstantial household are very connected, then it is. due to the fact that it is impossible to guarantee a average future for our children and our household if we do not guarantee a normal, sustainable future for the full country, the country. That's why patriotism is so developed in Russia.

T. Carlson: If you don't mind, religions are different. The fact is that Christianity is simply a nonviolent religion, Christ says, “put the another cheek over,” “don’t kill” and so on. How can a leader be a Christian if he has to kill individual else? How can this be reconciled?

Vladimir Putin: It's very simple to defend yourself, your family, your homeland. We're not attacking anyone. How did events in Ukraine begin? From the coup d'état and the start of the war in Donbasa – that's where it started. And we defend our people, ourselves, our homeland and our future.

When it comes to religion at all, you know, it's not about outward appearances, it's not about going to church all day or hitting your head on the floor. She's in her heart. We have a culture focused on people. Dostoevsky, very well known in the West as a genius of Russian culture, Russian literature, spoke a lot about this – about the Russian soul.

Western society is more pragmatic. The Russians, the Russians, think more about what is eternal, think more about moral values. I don't know, you may disagree with me, but Western culture is inactive more pragmatic. I am not saying that this is simply a bad thing, it allows today's "golden billion" to accomplish good success in production, even in discipline and so on. There is nothing incorrect with that – I'm just saying that in a sense we look the same, but our consciousness is built somewhat differently.

T. Carlson: So you think there's something supernatural going on here? Looking at what is happening in the world, do you see the works of God? Are you telling yourself that I see any superhuman force working here?

Vladimir Putin: No, honestly, I don't think so. I think the planet community is developing according to its own interior laws and are what they are. There's no escape, that's always been the case in human history. any nations and countries arose, multiplied, strengthened, and then left the global arena in the quality to which they were accustomed. I guess I don't gotta give these examples: starting with the same Orda conquerors, through Genghis Khan, then the Golden Orda, and ending with the large Roman Empire. It seems that in the past of mankind there was nothing better than the large Roman Empire.

Nevertheless, the possible of barbarians gradually accumulated, accumulated, and under their blows fell the Roman Empire, due to the fact that there were more barbarians, they began to make mostly well, as we say now, they began to strengthen economically. And the government imposed upon the planet by the large Roman Empire fell. It is actual that the dissolution of the large Roman Empire lasted long – 500 years; this process of decomposition of the large Roman Empire lasted 500 years. The difference with today's situation is that changes take place much faster present than in the times of the large Roman Empire.

T. Carlson: But erstwhile will the AI empire of artificial intelligence begin?

Vladimir Putin: You're pulling me into increasingly complex issues. To answer that, of course, you request to be an expert in the field of large numbers, in this artificial intelligence.

Humanity faces many threats: genetic research, which allows to make a superhuman, a unique individual – a human warrior, a human scientist, a human athlete. Now they say Elon Musk has already implanted a chip in a person's brain.

T. Carlson: What do you think?

W. Putin: I believe that Muska cannot be stopped – she will inactive do what she considers necessary. But we gotta negociate with him, find a way to convince him. I think she's intelligent, which means I'm certain she's intelligent. It should be agreed that this process requires canonisation, subject to certain principles.

Humanity must, of course, consider what will happen to it in connection with the improvement of these latest genetic investigation and technology or artificial intelligence. You can foretell about what's going to happen. Therefore, erstwhile humanity felt a threat to its existence from atomic weapons, all atomic weapons owners began to agree with 1 another due to the fact that they understood that their careless usage could lead to complete, complete destruction.

Only erstwhile it comes to the knowing that the unlimited and uncontrolled improvement of artificial intelligence, genetics, or another contemporary trends that cannot be stopped, these studies will continue, just as they could not be hidden from humanity, what is powder, and it is impossible to halt investigation in 1 or another field, these studies will proceed to be carried out, but erstwhile humanity feels a threat to itself, to humanity as a whole, then, in my opinion, there will come a time erstwhile at interstate level it will be agreed on how we should regulate it.

T. Carlson: Thank you so much for your time. I want to ask you 1 more question.

Evan Gerszkowicz, who is 32, an American journalist, has been in prison for over a year, is simply a large communicative in the United States. I want to ask you: are you ready in a motion of goodwill to free him so that we can take him to the United States?

Vladimir Putin: We have made so many gestures of goodwill that I think we have exhausted all limits. No 1 has always answered our gestures of goodwill with akin gestures. However, in fact, we are ready to say that we do not exclude that we can do so in front of our partners.

And by "partners", I mean first of all representatives of peculiar services. They're in contact and they're discussing it. We don't have a taboo to solve this problem. We are prepared to resolve it, but there are certain conditions that are being discussed through channel partnerships between intelligence services. I think we can agree on that.

T. Carlson: Of course, everything happens over the centuries – the country catches a spy, keeps him and then replaces him. Of course, it is no of my business, but this situation is different in the sense that this individual is surely not a spy – he is just a child. And of course, he may have violated your rights, but he's not a spy and he surely wasn't spying. possibly he's inactive in another category. possibly it would be unfair to ask individual else in return?

Vladimir Putin: You know, you can say what you want about who a spy is and who isn't, but there are certain things that the law provides. If a individual receives classified information and does so in secret, it is called espionage. That's precisely what he did: he got classified information and did it in secret. I don't know, possibly he was pulled in, individual could have dragged him into this case, possibly he did everything carelessly, on his own initiative. But in fact, it's called espionage. And everything was proven due to the fact that he was caught red-handed erstwhile he received this information. If it were any kind of far-fetched, imaginary, unconfirmed thing, it would be a different story. He was caught red-handed erstwhile he secretly received classified information. What is this?

T. Carlson: Are you saying that you worked for the U.S. government, for NATO, or that possibly you're just a writer who has received information that shouldn't have hit him? I think there is inactive a difference between the 2 categories.

Vladimir Putin: I don't know who he was working for. But I repeat: getting classified information is called espionage, and he acted in the interests of American intelligence services and any another structures. I do not think that he worked for Monaco – it is improbable that Monaco would be curious in receiving specified information. It's the intelligence services that gotta come to an knowing between themselves, do you realize that? There are any changes, there are people who, in our opinion, are not connected to peculiar services either.

Listen, I will tell you: in 1 country, an ally of the United States, there is simply a man who, for patriotic reasons, eliminated a bandit in 1 of the European capitals. During events in the Caucasus, do you know what he [the bandit] did? I don't want to say this, but I'll tell you this: our captured soldiers were put on the road, and then he ran the car over their heads. Who is this man and is this man? But there was a patriot who eliminated him in 1 of the European capitals. Another question is whether he did it on his own initiative or not.

T. Carlson: Evan Gerszkowicz didn't do anything like that, that's a full different story.

Vladimir Putin: He did something else.

T. Carlson: He's just a journalist.

Vladimir Putin: It's not just a journalist, I repeat. He's a writer who secretly received classified information. Yeah, that's a full different story.

I am only talking about those people who are actually under the control of the US authorities, regardless of where they are in prison, and there is dialog between intelligence services. It should be solved quietly, calmly and on a professional level. There are contacts, let them work.

I do not regulation out that the individual mentioned by you, Mr. Gerszkowicz, may go to his homeland. Why not? There's no point in keeping him in prison in Russia. But let our American intelligence colleagues besides think about how to solve the problems our intelligence services face. We're not locked up for negotiations. Moreover, these negotiations are ongoing and we have reached agreement in many cases. We can come to an agreement right now, but we just gotta negotiate.

T. Carlson: I hope you let him go. Thank you very much, Mr. President.

Vladimir Putin: I want him to come home. I'm being honest. But I repeat, the dialog continues. The more we publicize specified cases, the harder it is to solve them. Everything should be quiet.

T. Carlson: Honestly, in a war, I don't know if it works or not. If you don't mind, I'll ask you 1 more question.

You may not want to respond for strategical reasons, but are you not afraid that what is happening in Ukraine can lead to something much bigger and much worse? And how ready are you, or are you motivated to call the States, for example, and say, "Let's negotiate?"

Vladimir Putin: Look, I told you, we didn't refuse to negotiate. We do not refuse – this is the western side, and Ukraine is, of course, a satellite of the United States today. It's obvious. It's true, I don't want it to sound like a slob or an insult to someone, but we understand, don't we?

Financial support was provided – 72 billion, Germany is second, another European countries, tens of billions of dollars go to Ukraine. There's a massive influx of weapons.

Tell today's leaders of Ukraine: listen, let's sit down, negotiate, cancel this stupid show or decree and sit down, talk. We didn't say no.

T. Carlson: Yes, you already said that. Of course, I realize perfectly well that this is not a pothole. Indeed, it was reported that Ukraine was prevented from signing the peace at the command of the erstwhile Prime Minister of large Britain, who acted on Washington's orders. That is why I ask why you will not solve these issues straight with the Biden administration, which controls the Zelenski administration in Ukraine?

W. Putin: If the Zełenski administration in Ukraine refused to negotiate, it turns out that it did so on Washington's orders. Now, if they see in Washington that it's a bad decision, let them abandon it, find any subtle excuse, not offensive to anyone, and find specified a solution. We did not make those decisions – they made the decision, so let them cancel it. That's all.

Well, they made the incorrect decision, and now we're expected to look for a way out of this incorrect decision, choice up the tail and correct their mistakes? They did it. Make it better. We're on it.

T. Carlson: I want to make certain I realize you correctly. That means you want to scope a negotiated solution to what is happening in Ukraine now, right?

Vladimir Putin: That's right. After all, we have achieved this, we have created a large paper in Istanbul, which was initialled by the head of the Ukrainian delegation. His signature is on an extract from this agreement – not on everything, but on a passage. He signed and said: “We were ready to sign, and the war would have ended long ago, a year and a half ago. But Mr Johnson came and talked us out of it, and we lost this opportunity.” Well, they missed it, they made a mistake – let them go back to it, that's all. But why worry and correct someone's mistakes?

I realize it can be said that this is our mistake, that we have intensified our efforts and decided to end this war with weapons, as I said, which began in 2014 in Donbasa. But I'm going to get you even deeper, and I've already told you, and I've been talking to you about it. Then let's go back to 1991, erstwhile we were promised not to grow NATO, let's go back to 2008, erstwhile the gates to NATO opened, let's go back to the Declaration of independency of Ukraine, where it declared itself neutral. Let us return to the fact that NATO, US and British bases have begun to appear in Ukraine, creating these threats for us. Let us return to the fact that in 2014 there was a coup in Ukraine. Doesn't make sense, does it? You can rotation that ball back and distant forever. But they interrupted the negotiations. Wrong? Yeah, fix it. We're ready. What else?

T. Carlson: Don't you think it would be besides humiliating for NATO to admit now Russia's control of what was Ukraine's territory 2 years ago?

Vladimir Putin: But I said, "Let them think about how to do it with dignity." There are options, but if there's a will.

So far, noises and screams have been made: Russia's strategical defeat must be achieved, defeat on the battlefield... But now seemingly comes the realization that it is not easy, if at all possible. In my opinion, this is by definition impossible, something like this will never happen. It seems to me that now the consciousness has reached those who control Western power. But if that's the case and if that consciousness has come, think now, think about what to do next. We are ready for this dialogue.

T. Carlson: Are you ready to say, for example, NATO: congratulations, you have won, let us keep the situation as it is now.

W. Putin: Of course, this is the subject of negotiations that no 1 wants to lead with us, specifically: they want to, but they don't know how. I know what they want – not only do I see it, but I know what they want, but they just don't know how to do it. We thought about it, and we brought it back to where we were. We did not bring the substance to this point, but our “partners” and our opponents led it to this point. Okay, now let's let them figure out how to reverse the situation. We don't refuse.

It would be comic if it wasn't so sad. This endless mobilization in Ukraine, hysteria, interior problems, that's all... We'll come to an agreement sooner or later. And guess what? In today's situation it may even sound strange: relations between nations will be restored anyway. It'll take a long time, but it'll go back to its first state.

I'll give you any different examples. On the battlefield is simply a clash, a concrete example: Ukrainian soldiers are surrounded – this is simply a concrete example of life, of warfare – our soldiers shout to them: “You have no chance, give up! Leave, you will be alive, surrender!” And abruptly from there they shout in Russian, in good Russian: “The Russians do not surrender!” – and they all died. They inactive feel like Russians.

In this sense, what is happening is to any degree part of the civilian war. And everyone in the West thinks that fighting has forever separated 1 part of the Russian people from the other. Nope. Reunition will come. It didn't go anywhere.

Why are Ukrainian authorities separating Russian Orthodox Church? due to the fact that it unites not the territory, but the soul and will not be able to divide it.

Are we done or something else?

T. Carlson: That's all for me.

Thank you very much, Mr. President.

For: http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/73411

(PZ)