Conversation with Ireneusz Jabłoński, president of the BRICS Group of States investigation Institute
The BRICS Group of States investigation Institute is most likely the first specified investigation unit in Poland.
– Yes, we are the first unit, the first institution having the position of a foundation in the legal dimension, while in the substantive dimension – an institute, due to the fact that we want to focus mainly on researching the phenomenon of BRICS countries, of course as geopolitical changes in the world, and effort to draw applicable and affirmative conclusions for Poland, and above all its abroad policy.
Do these conclusions besides apply to the enlarged group, the BRICS+, or do you focus on the largest powers, powers of the group?
– Of course, we are looking at the full group, besides with associated countries, due to the fact that let us remind you that the BRICS Group was 5 basic countries. It has a past of respective years, but in subsequent years fresh countries join it, hence this format, which you talked about – BRICS+. It is already 11 countries today, due to the fact that I think 1 or 2 inactive request to notify accession. Nearly 30 countries are in a close line or further line, but for those giants, specified as the People's Republic of China, India, Brazil, of course, the Russian Federation, or South Africa, are either in association, or already within a group of regional powers, specified as Turkey from the border of Asia insignificant and Europe, or Indonesia, a country which according to Australian analysts in 2035, or only in 10 years, is to be the 5th economy of the world. There are, of course, African countries, the most populous and thus giving any economical and demographic perspective. So this is an highly interesting companionship, and as a function of what we observe on a regular basis – the transformation of relations and decay in the planet – in our opinion this group should be very carefully observed, political, economic, civilizational events should be analysed. And as I said: it is not an activity for the activity itself, it is the end consequence of our activities, the expert group that we have inside the institute and the 1 that cooperates with us, it is the improvement of a proposal for Poland, which should simply benefit from a thoughtful and systematic relation with the BRICS countries, due to the fact that these countries – as they all agree, even their political opponents – will dominate in the 21st century, and in any areas, for example, economical ones, in corpore They're already dominant today.
In very many areas, the more so due to the fact that we have the 2 largest economies in the world, India and China. But precisely what's missing from BRICS? How is the BRICS group different from another specified associations, global organisations? It is not an global organization, so it has a very loose structure.
– It's alternatively a format or an association, an association. This is the definition of prof. Gracian Cimek, who is 1 of our leading experts, expert in geopolitics, in my opinion 1 of the best in Poland. This is simply a loose association or organization of a fresh type, a fresh format, i.e. there are no folk commissioners, present called European Commissioners, there are no formulas that are in South America or late in North America, with any headquarters, scheme, administration. It is simply a form of an agreement that is expanding, but the phenomenon of this group is that erstwhile you enter, you do not sign any certificate, you just declare cooperation and choose areas where this cooperation can be deeper, in which it is more superficial, and in which it is not at all. So this is, given our good and bad experiences, for example with an aunt of the European Union, a completely different philosophy, a completely different format, much more flexible and thus much more friendly to those who will join this format. That's why he's so curious.
I'll look for any drawbacks. Not long ago, I read about the fact that, after the next BRICS summits, there are any who deficiency the secretariat we mentioned, no institutionalisation. We have, for example, faced a situation where messages translated into very many different languages of the BRICS+ countries differed in content due to the fact that they were not agreed. A single text was frequently unsettled. So these are negatives, but on the another hand we have the fresh improvement Bank, which is the first institutions, but somewhere emerging and with BRICS related.
“We besides have the BRICS Olympics, we have the BRICS movie festival, etc., that is to say: an alternate is being built for the world, say, the white man, or Euroatlantic civilization. This is an nonsubjective phenomenon, so we should want to know it, a phenomenon to realize and make specified behaviours that would let us to benefit from the relation in all levels, due to the fact that we cannot ignore the fact that the planet is transforming so importantly in our eyes, and we have behind the wall of 1 of the leaders of this organization. To protest that with this leader we already have almost 600 kilometres of border is simply unwise. But despite even this subtle fact, entering into relations with specified partners as Brazil, India, Turkey or the Maghreb area, the area of Indochin in which we were, we are inactive educated by the economical or political leaders of those countries, well embedded, is simply a request for a minute to not say the reason of the state. Therefore, without organization aspirations – due to course we deal with politics, but in aristocratic terms, that is, we conduct analysis – we operate in a large part pro publico bonoFor the common good. We would like to make through analyses, conferences, bilateral and group contacts first the awareness that something crucial is happening in the planet and we should know something about it and wonder what benefits we could draw from it for the country.
Let us remind, due to the fact that I was straight active in this, that the first specified proposal, a very serious economical and political proposal, went to Poland in 2015-2017, erstwhile we were invited to the Belt and way Initiative, the fresh Silk Road and were to be a distributor of communication between the mediate and Central Europe, from Scandinavia to the Balkans. This proposal has unfortunately been rejected, as the editor knows. By the way, there was a large diplomatic conscience and any political provocation. But since this task and this reality are gaining momentum, I think it would be worth remembering about these good and bad experiences from nearly 10 years ago, but on the another hand, consider how to enter into what is happening into this communicative that happens right in front of our eyes.
If you let us, referring a small to the concept of the fresh Silk Road, you were, we will uncover it, due to the fact that it is public cognition and most likely widely known, Vice president of Lodz.
– It's not a secret.
It's not a secret. Łódź was to play a peculiar function in these projects. Could you just give us any insight into the circumstances in which the function that Łódź was expected to play was abandoned and why this happened? We are talking about 1 of the crucial threads of the fresh Silk Road, which was to end in Łódź, or run through Łódź.
I'll start at the end. We got a proposal and it was a very serious proposal from Chinese partners. small of that, this proposal was made by the then Polish government, and it was owned by deputy prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki, who served as deputy prime minister of the government, me as Vice president of Lodz liable for economical affairs and global relations, invited to cooperate and de facto finalize the project, which was to build a railway hub in Łódź or close Łódź, which would close the northern thread of the Silk Road. As you look at the map of Eurasia, the Silk Road begins somewhere in China. This thread was expected to start due to the fact that it was a railway thread in Chengdu. It is the capital of Sichuan Province, about 1,800 kilometres from the Pacific, in a consecutive line, but inactive still 2,000 kilometres from the border with Kazakhstan, due to the fact that it is worth remembering that China is simply a large country, only 5% smaller than the United States, but larger than the European Union almost twice. Therefore, in Chengdu the way was to begin, and end in Łódź and from Łódź we were to operate trade on the north-south axis, i.e. from Scandinavia to the Balkans, tying it on 1 side through the port in Gdańsk, which had and has an agreement with a large, third-largest port of China – Canton. This is the southernmost port. In the south of Europe, this was to go through Pireus, in which entrepreneurs or Chinese companies have considerable influence and areas of action.
Ireneusz Jablonski
This was, you will agree, an highly interesting process, due to the fact that this cooperation was to consist not only in repackaging, but in refining, composing, producing parts, etc. It's a big, immense transcontinental and civilizational business. And what happened to that? We were ready to sign the agreement due to the fact that the partners of the agreement were to be the city of Chengdu and Łódź. Chinese partners even accepted specified a division of assets in the company that 51% took the Polish side and 49% accepted Chinese side. They were willing to spend their money on it. The money was tiny in fact, relatively, of course, due to the fact that at the time we talked about about about PLN 300 million. This was expected to be the first stage, which would, of course, be expanded later. Everything was ready to be finalized, and this was the only task ready at the time to be implemented in the framework of the strategical partnership between Poland and China. I would remind you that this strategical partnership was confirmed during the visit of president Xi Jinping in September 2016, and in May 2017, we were to sign an first agreement and clarify the terms. Our brave minister of the war of the then government assembled the intrigue, utilizing his Hunwabs, and the full project, contrary to the politics of his own government at the time, blew up, perfectly utilizing provocation.
Name: Antoni Maciejewicz. He was Minister of War at the time.
- Yes, he was Minister of War. Let's skip the malice, though it stings to say some. Anyway, the fact is, he's not up for discussion. We're not talking about gossip here. This task was broken up in an inelegant way by your minister. He himself shouted it out in the corridor to respective Members who were the addressees of his communication and besides witnessed a de facto confession to his activity. What are the consequences? That we could have been, but we have not become a pillar of cooperation, or at least a large part of the economical exchange between China, which is simply a mill of the planet and Europe. Let us remind you that according to the CIA study China produces twice as much as the United States. We're talking about the manufacturing area. We don't number Hollywood or legal services due to the fact that it doesn't have much value. We are talking about manufacture and material services. And we as a country, and Łódź especially as a city, could have been 1 of the main operators of this exchange. Let me repeat: besides consisting in processing, making up parts and handling the full logistics of the project. These are billions of gold that have so far departed from us. After all, how will you look in your immediate surroundings, at home, at what you are wearing – who does not have Chinese products?
You may be offended, but let's effort to quit consumer electronics, household appliances, sports and everyday clothes, gadgets, gifts, etc. We can quit, but then what? I think there's nothing to be offended about. These events from the past, which I am recalling, must be remembered, due to the fact that behind them were circumstantial people, and behind them were circumstantial interests. Concrete business, inspirational centers, and good to know, right? But we request to think about how, despite these mediocre national experiences, we request to get active in these activities of the BRICS countries, which are not going to be so emotional today, or so much of this. Especially due to the fact that Germany, the French, as we know, are systematically driving, systematically negotiating and systematically doing gold deals with this mill of the world, and we, having an invitation, fell out of this group. I might add as a curiosity that at this crucial minute erstwhile we were close to the final, it was most likely January 2017, it was written about it in the main journal, in a paper that is besides the diary of the Communist organization of China, “Renmin Ribao”. This is the equivalent of our erstwhile People's Tribune.
The most popular paper in China.
– Yes, sir. In the hard copy, the printed version, the 1 with a smaller range, is more elite, it says that there are 2 strategical projects in Central Europe. 1 is simply a atomic power plant in the Czech Republic, and the another is simply a railway hub in Łódź, Poland. This was, as we should understand, a serious declaration, due to the fact that the diary represented the position of the government and political elite of this country. And yet, it didn't work. But in order not to lament the spilled medicine, we have set up an institute in a group of entrepreneurs, experts and dormitories – in order to grow cognition and make it available to the public and to you; to make political choices we are aware and have a wider spectrum of who and for what purposes we want to hire, to service us or manage our common affairs.
You are the first specified analytical, expert, investigation unit dealing with BRICS in the country. We besides have comparatively fewer authors. I mean the academic ones. You mentioned the common character of our friend prof. Gracian Cimek, who is most likely 1 of the exceptions in the planet of Polish political scientists dealing with BRICS.
– Yes, this is simply a young scientist of the fresh generation, but as we know perfectly well – with a large cognition of the subject, already writing, but besides planning further technological publications on the BRICS group.
What are the plans of the institute, apart from supporting, as I understand, the activities of specified figures of Polish discipline as Gracian Cimek, too attending various conferences? Can we skip the mystery of what the institute is going to do this year?
"We plan to organise a large global conference, with a large number of academic or expert centres in Europe, due to the fact that it turns out that, as we have done specified a investigation on who deals with this issue in Europe, it turns out that in all major European countries there are serious institutes or recognised academics who deal with these issues on an ongoing basis. 1 should think – due to the fact that there are serious states in general – that they besides do this in part at the request or commission of their own governments, in contrast to ours, who would like to silence it and match an ostrich hiding his head in the sand. But we will want to invitation these colleagues from countries specified as Italy, Greece, Germany, Spain, possibly Britain and the smaller ones. Of course, those who accept the invitation from the BRICS countries, at least from their core. We are doing this so that we can talk about our common perception of this phenomenon and the function of our part of Europe. We have no aspirations to colonize our ideas with the Iberian Peninsula, but Central Europe is already within our reach.
Back to this natural belt that exists in various geostrategic, geopolitical, geoeconomic considerations, a belt built on the meridian strategy that is natural for us. So that we are not just transit or the area of the march of troops, as it has been in history, so that we specify these fresh opportunities and, at the beginning on the expert-academic level, make any common views and then possibly propose them for implementation. We are besides planning to print two, possibly 3 publications that are specified a collection of articles and lectures from very interesting conferences over the last 2 years. Fortunately, there is an open policy, and the organizers of these conferences have declared that they will make the material available to us at no extra charge due to the fact that these materials and authors of these materials have already been honored. The only thing on our side is to make good translations.
We have, as you know, a publisher among us, so I think this will be the second area. And the 3rd area, as the situation may mature, we will effort to inspire institutions or elements straight or indirectly related to the Polish government or even the Sejm to open our eyes and participate in a serious political life, not only to push or kick our ankles. Let me reiterate that all major European countries, including the Nordic countries, which are much smaller, already carry out specified work, have advanced research, have created structures supported by local capital. It is to be surmised that besides straight or indirectly through their own governments and circumstantial state institutions which they may want to draw from this knowledge. And we are as usual at the grey end, hence our initiative, which in a formal sense materialized in October 2023. The activity, real activity started with the beginning of 2024, a small over a year ago. We hope that it will besides be noticed in the sense that it will be perceived as a large, interesting component of something that you have noticed is marginalized today.
Under average conditions, the Polish authorities would already order expertise at your institution. In the end, possibly I'll ask you a small provocative question. Let us assume, let us let the imagination go, and imagine that the European Union ceases to exist. any say it will happen in any perspective. In specified conditions, could Poland, in search of its place in the world, apply for an association with the BRICS group?
– I think so. Even as a associate of the Union, she could, due to the fact that there are no obstacles, and if wisely, wisely, conduct a abroad policy, then being the gateway between the East and the West, we should want to look for specified opportunities, if not in a formal association, then possibly in more sophisticated diplomatic forms, due to the fact that I will mention one more time to the map: geopolitics is nothing but reading the map. Of course, it is about its political functions, possibilities and needs. If you look at the location of Poland, we have the key to a gate that is 600-650 kilometres wide from the Baltic to the Carpathians. This is the simplest, cheapest and most friendly communication space between East Asia, to which the economical center has moved today, and it is expected that, over time, the civilizational world, and Western Europe, which, as we can see, has been given a solid breath of breath, but let's say any assets and any opportunities it has and will most likely gotta enter into crucial cooperation with Asia and the BRICS countries if it wants to survive, or at least prolong its agony. Therefore, let us look at our position as a gift of heaven to manage this gate consciously.
Thank you for talking to me.
Matthew Piskorski spoke
Ireneusz Jabłoński – economist, manager, entrepreneur, president of the BRICS Group of States investigation Institute.
Think Poland, No. 5-6 (1-8.02.2026)
