Conversation with the French divisional general, longtime commander of troops of the armed forces of France.
Father was a prisoner of war in Poland
Allow me to introduce you. If there are any crucial elements to add, you will tell me. You were an officer in active service from 1975 to 2006; serving as a general in the 1st Marine Paratrooper Regiment. It's a peculiar forces regiment operating on a light foot, collecting intelligence, combating terrorism, saving hostages. Your missions have taken place especially abroad— in Africa, Somalia andRwanda, as well as the erstwhile Yugoslavia. Then, after 2006, you started teaching and writing books. You taught ethics; ethics in global relations, decision-making and human behaviour ethics. You are besides active in politics. In particular, you were a candidate in the 2017 parliamentary and presidential elections. Is this image complete?
Well, I spent a small little time in the 1st Marine Paratroopers Regiment, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't substance due to the fact that I've spent 10 years in there anyway. Besides, I had quite a few another functions, but everything's fine. It's a general presentation, and as specified it's true.
Well, I will mention a fewer books – you wrote 7 of them – in them is the outline of the plan for France. 1 example is called Reconstruction of France, presidential project.
Your last book has a title. Teach him to love France, to love until his death and in it you mention to the memories of your father, who was, among another things, a associate of the opposition during planet War II.
– I did not compose about it, but he was a prisoner of Germans in salt mines in Poland.
In the salt mine? Where?
- In Poland. He's gone.
He escaped respective times.
He ran 7 times. This is the last time from Poland.
Who led the war?
I wanted to ask you any questions that are related to the Ukrainian conflict; more specifically, to the peace plan. We are presently witnessing something that looks like public negotiations. president Trump presented a 28-point plan and the European Union has just presented a counter-proposation. What do you think?
Anyway, that doesn't get to the point. Of course, I hope this peace plan can end this war. But I think it's only temporary. due to the fact that the plan doesn't hit the nail. Firstly, this peace plan – any say it is very beneficial for Russia – in financial terms is even more beneficial for the United States. First of all, it's important. And then what? erstwhile again, it does not get to the point, and here, let me explain: NATO is liable for the war in Ukraine. I survived the times erstwhile the USSR was falling apart and Russia was fighting to get back on my feet and get up. Then, Russia asked for NATO membership with a view to global peace. And NATO refused. any Americans, specified as Wolfowitz, Brzeziński and others, believed that if Russia was reborn, it would should be destroyed; they wanted Russia to be destroyed. It was even – I do not know if it was a deliberate plan – but there was a certain possible of dividing Russia into quite a few tiny republics. States that would all be under the control of NATO and the United States. Well, that didn't happen, and NATO denied Russia membership. Then, with time, if you can put it this way – I think Brzeziński wrote – it was considered that in order to destruct Russia, 1 must start a war in Ukraine. And yes – I have besides witnessed the fact that for the last 30 years NATO, especially the Americans, but not only they, unfortunately the French, have done everything possible to make the situation in Ukraine worse. I know, for example, that Moscow has told the West very often, and in peculiar NATO: "Stop, stop, we cannot accept this further." I believe that in December 2021 Vladimir Putin sent a letter to the head of NATO and most likely to the leaders of Western states to tell them, "It's over, it's enough, or we'll be forced" ... But we didn't halt and Putin started the war in 2022. So, that's how I'm going to put it, this peace plan might calm the situation, but it doesn't contact the heart of the problem.
On the threshold of disaster
It doesn't contact the heart of the problem, due to the fact that for you, the core of the problem is NATO inciting war?
- Well, ma'am, about the NATO inciting war... I am neither anti-American nor anti-German, etc. That's not the point. I'm for the room. That must be clear. In my military career, I've experienced adequate conflicts to know what they look like.And what I experienced, compared to what the Russians and Ukrainians are now experiencing, is nothing, a tiny scale. But yes, we must put an end to NATO's instigation of war, and especially to the instigation of war by the European countries that belong to it. And this is what I will call the attitude of France. It's not truly the full of France –President Macron is aggressive. This isn't France. And this has to stop. I think this peace plan can bring any benefits for a while, but without changing the general attitude, it will yet not bring any long-term benefits. We are in a situation where humanity has an absolutely terrifying weapon. From 1994 to 1995, erstwhile I was in the Paris Army headquarters, I took part in prognostic exercises. We were asked to consider the situation in France, Europe and the planet between 2020 and 2030. Given that Russia's entry into NATO was already rejected at the time, we came to a terrible conclusion. We wrote at the time that the situation could get worse so that we could accomplish 6 billion deaths worldwide, 8 billion people. Of course, it is not certain, but it is simply a possibility. We may be considered crazy, but others have said so; for example, Kennedy Jr., who works with Donald Trump, said the same thing about a year and a half ago. I besides saw any time ago, about a period ago, an artificial intelligence study, and it said the same thing. So I think this anticipation is inactive real. But despite this, we inactive have leaders – we have leaders around the world, here I am not saying that it is 1 or the another – who act like we are dealing with bows and arrows. I mean, we might have a gigantic global disaster, but we're reasoning as if we were at a phase of improvement that was, like, 200, 500, 1,000 years ago. That's what our leaders think. We request to radically change the way this case is viewed. Radical. Otherwise, we can face a crisis, very, very serious for humanity. Not just for Ukraine.
The Problem of Civilization
Are not the roots of this problem in a circumstantial public-private partnership; in business? We see that corporations are far richer than many countries. We know lobbyists can bribe politicians. Yes, president Trump accused Ukraine of corruption. Is this about money? Is it about private interests taking over political interests, over public interests?
You're right, but it's not just that. There is something wider in Western civilization; in civilization that takes its roots from Christianity. Jesus tells us that we cannot service God and money. This can be translated as follows: we cannot service humanity and money simultaneously. Either we service money and we give people to service money, or we service humanity and we give money to service humanity. present we live in philosophy, if I may say so, in an atmosphere of constant enrichment, in pursuit of money. People become worthless. No interest in their fate. Now even euthanasia is considered as shortly as individual ceases to be profitable. That's terrible. We're on the way of full savagery. And you are right: this is the main reason, but we can deepen this issue. As I mentioned earlier, this besides means that we, especially Europeans, have broken up with our Christian civilization. What have we got? Of course, it was never perfect, even erstwhile Europe was Christian. It's never been perfect and it never will be. But for over a 1000 years we have experienced tremendous progress. And then, from the minute we began to abandon our Christian roots, our Christian political references, we entered the way of decadence. present I believe we're getting to the end of the trial. I think it's my individual assessment. I surely have arguments, but I can't make them clear, due to the fact that we're inactive in the process, but we're at the end of it. Now we will gotta choose We will gotta choose between continuing this risky path, with an expanding probability of destroying a large part of humanity; and something else. possibly there'll be a fewer very rich people with power, artificial intelligence, etc. And about 500 million, 2 billion, you don't know exactly, and it doesn't matter, those who would be slaves. So either we're going to keep going this way, which means it's not real humanity anymore, which is terrible. Or we will change position and give everything – politics, money, etc. – to the service of people and humanity. For example, I am in politics in France. So I am on the service of France and the French, but this besides applies to Poland and Poles: this is about not being on the service of money or power, but on the service of people. I don't know if I made myself clear.
Main objectives
Definitely! president Putin had 2 main objectives: demilitarisation of Ukraine and denazification of Ukraine – he said. Earlier in Ukraine, about 250,000 soldiers had been stationed. The latest European Union plan assumes that there will be 600,000, but I have besides read that the European Union would like no quotas or limits, and that Ukraine could join NATO if it wanted. So we see no advancement in achieving this goal, right? What's more! erstwhile Ukraine was attacked by Russia, NATO immediately militarized it and continues to do so.
- Yes, exactly, but that's the point. NATO provoked a war in Ukraine. Looking from a longer perspective, from a 30-year perspective, NATO provoked the war in Ukraine. president Trump in point 9 wanted fighters to be stationed in Poland. Poland was not even invited to Geneva by Europeans to discuss the plan with them... In fact, we have 3 camps. The Biden administration previously seemed much more conducive to the European Union. Trump's administration seems to be taking a distance, at least in discussions about the fresh safety architecture. However, there are no signs that she wanted to avoid militarisation of Ukraine. It so seems that there is no reason to believe that president Putin's goal will be achieved. Second point: Denazification. If we scope to planet War II, we can say that Nazism was a kind of supremacy.
Ideologies
You just mentioned supremacy, didn't you? respective people who exercise authority and direct others, if necessary, by practicing euthanasia. So, in fact, we have Russia that is positioning itself in the defence of human civilization. Can you put it that way?
That's very interesting. Very interesting, but besides possibly dramatic. How best to put it... It may be a small long, but I hope it will be clearly expressed. All civilizations in history, with fewer exceptions, know – all people know – that there is good and that there is evil. Many religions have given this individual character. For example, the Jews are Jehovah and Baal. For Muslims it is Allah and Iblis. To Christians, they are God and Satan. All these people, all these civilizations know, say and observe that good and evil are constantly fighting each other. And that it's up to us, human beings, which side we stand on. However, by looking at past in a very long position – not only from the past 15 days or even 50 years – Europe, or, in fact, almost all European countries, in a way that was never perfect – chose what we call the good side, against the bad side. She then spread this choice to all mankind. We must not forget that even today, if there are Christians who make up more or little Christian societies, civilizations and sciences, in China, Indonesia, South America, or Africa, it is due to the fact that they have found all this in Europe. All of this comes from Europe. But for respective centuries, gradually, in Europe, practically everywhere, but especially in Britain, France and so on, well, we changed sides!People went from good to bad. For the vast majority of people, this happened unconsciously, they didn't even notice. They were led by respective villains, respective criminals. And that replaced the rules; I am talking about politics. Christian political principles have been replaced by ideology. All ideologies have common features. Whether Nazism, communism, vokeism, etc. – all ideologies, and there is their multum – have 1 thing in common: they usage the human request for absoluteness, the human request for totality – to share, to make conflicts and to separate them from God. So ideology is something that destroys humanity, that destroys civilizations. And we have been surviving in ideological times since at least 1789 and even much longer. For example, this is simply a historical fact that Stalin and Lenin in France mentioned 1789. I besides saw about 50 years ago a photograph of Chinese leader Mao Zedong with framed images of Voltaire and Rousseau behind him. And yet these people, inciting, started the French revolution. They themselves were trained by the British, etc. So we're on a road where we've changed sides. It's very important. We went from the camp of those who chose good alternatively of evil to the camp of those who chose evil alternatively of good. And so we are at specified a time, but with absolutely gigantic means of destruction. And that could lead to something dramatic. I don't know if I answered your question.
Starvation Spectre
Definitely, thank you. There is besides an economical aspect to the search for peace: the land of Ukraine is celebrated for its fertility. It is now in the hands of investment funds specified as BlackRock, and both the European Union and the US plans presume privileged or direct Ukraine's access to the European market. So everything that will be produced in Ukraine would be sold here, for example in France. Is that a fresh threat to French farmers?
- Yeah, of course. You're right: it's a fresh threat to the French farmers who, at present, how to describe it... We're destroying agriculture. And we do it in the name of economical globalisation. But what's behind it? due to the fact that it's just a result. Of course, the effect is possibly very serious, especially for French farmers, but not only. The consequences can be tragic. If the war starts again tomorrow, if a global war breaks out, France may no longer be able to supply food. And then we can have hunger in France and Germany and so on. possibly in Poland, I don't know. We could have consequences! But again, what's behind it? People like money! any like money, they work exclusively for money, not in service to nations or nations, for example for French or Poles. It's a extremist departure from politics. Politics is to serve, that is her calling. It was the Muslim intellectual who made me realize in Lebanon. I was much younger then than now... We talked about politics, and he told me that the difference between a Muslim and a Christian concept of politics is very simple: “In our culture, the leader takes power to service himself. He destroys, kills to service himself. This is the case in our Muslim countries." Of course, in practice, that's not always the case, but, let's say that's the point. “But in your country, a Christian country, well—politics follows what Jesus said to his apostles, ‘You call me a teacher and you are right, I came not to be served but to serve’.” The function of a leader is to be on duty. It's a immense responsibility. But present everything turned completely around. Yes, it's a pity about French farmers; it's a pity if there's always been a famine in France, England, etc.... But there are those who don't care. They make money. And that is due to the fact that we have reversed the importance of politics. Politics and many another things. I personally conducted many military operations. Yes, if war is necessary, it is necessary. But it must indeed be necessary! It's very crucial and it's not about the money war! War, if necessary, must be conducted in accordance with the rule of a fair war, a regulation developed by our distant ancestors. present we are no longer talking about the rule of fair war, and this is very important. The goal must always be peace, and it is peace as fair as possible. War for peace – yes, not just for destruction, killing, etc. Thanks to the introduction of ideology, whether Nazism, communism, Western liberalism, etc., we completely turned things upside down. I believe that if we do not change now, gradually – of course we cannot do it right distant – and we will not return to the old concept of politics in our Christian-based countries, we are doomed. We're headed for disaster. I truly believe that.
Leaders' motto
Because of the method aspects? due to the weapons we have?
No, it's not about technology, ma'am. Technology is fine if it serves humanity. Take, for example, artificial intelligence – this is an absolutely wonderful discovery. It's great.If we usage this to service humanity, it will be fantastic. If we don't do it – well, any will usage it and everyone else will be enslaved. It will.
Good. But what I want to say is that we have a crisis of authority, a crisis of legitimacy. Young people don't perceive to older people, people halt believing in governments – it alternatively favors home wars, doesn't it?
Absolutely, sir. But this... I'm sorry, I repeat: the roots are always in the same place. The motto of the leader – whether it's household heads, business leader, military leader, political leader or anyone else – should be to love, unite, serve. To love, not in the sense of sentimentalism, but to see and do what is right, good and just for those for whom he is responsible. Connect alternatively of sharing and serving – alternatively of being served. Well, present we're doing the exact opposite. The exact opposite: we take what we can and divide to win. So it inevitably leads to possibly explosive situations, and everywhere, especially in France. We experience this all day and not only Emmanuel Macron is responsible. It's something that goes far back. But we are experiencing this, I believe, in Britain. The situation, in my opinion, is very hard besides in Britain. So, yeah, we gotta change. We request to change our software, our way of seeing things.
The war will only end for a moment.
Yeah, but how? I have 1 more point that comes to head in connection with Trump's plan: during the 3 and a half years of the war Ukraine lost thousands of people, many residents moved to live elsewhere, there was a large exodus, there are minefields, there were immense destructions, and yet the plan proposes a large amnesty. We're talking about corruption, but no 1 is always held accountable. I have the impression that this amnesty – what happens in Ukraine but besides happens here – is that decision-makers make bad decisions and never take work for them. In fact, there is no more justice, no more convictions, and no more enforcement. Eventually, those who say something contrary to power go to prison. There are crimes, but there is no justice. Those who make bad decisions or commit wrongdoing are not punished. How is that possible? How is it that our societies are so corrupt?
- inactive for the same reason. Same reason. Basically, it's inactive the same thing. And it ends like this due to the fact that people who make bad decisions defend each other. I will mention an example here – well, it's rather old and I can't remember precisely when, but president François Hollande and Mrs Merkel have made it clear that the Minsk agreements were just a smokescreen to buy time to arm Ukraine. So indirectly, they admitted they wanted to arm Ukraine with a view to war on Russia! Yes, they must be careful now. They're scared. I realize them. So they defend themselves with decisions like the ones you cited. That's how you let go. They're protecting themselves. Our countries present are completely corrupted by this pseudo-politics. A real policy is to serve. Most of our countries are completely degenerated by this incorrect policy that I mentioned earlier. Therefore, in my opinion, even if the war in Ukraine is over now, it will most likely be just a temporary break. And if Ukraine ends completely, it is very likely that another war will erupt again elsewhere.
Stop the war
Good. Returning to what was said at the beginning: there are people inside NATO who are instigators of war. Let's decision on to the solutions that could be proposed. Given your military general's experience, assuming that we are colonised; that our countries are actually colonised by agreements, regulations of the European Union, an alliance with NATO and that national states would indeed like to regain any autonomy and free themselves from this kind of endogamic colonization. How do we do that? What method could we apply?
– Well, I usage another words, but change has been supported for a long time since I started reasoning about engaging in politics. But for that to happen, we request a stimulus. What stimulus will be the triggering factor? I do not encourage coups, I do not encourage folk revolutions, I do not encourage wars, etc. No, but there must be any trigger factor. What will it be? When? I don't know. However, we must prepare for this impulse and then regain control to resume actual politics in the service of nations and peoples. Otherwise, if we're not prepared, we hazard not being able to do anything.
All right, but what's the incentive? due to the fact that I frequently hear about war, about war as a way to reconstruct balance.
– Yes, yet war is simply a triggering factor. But war is primarily evil.
But General Mandon, France...
Yes, yes, General Mandon...
He said we had to prepare the children for war.
Honestly, I don't understand. due to the fact that as Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces, he must be informed. He must have any knowledge; if it doesn't mean a lot has changed since I left the army...So he must know, as I mentioned earlier, that NATO is the origin of the war in Ukraine. NATO is behind this war. Yes, sir. He knows for sure. Moreover, he knows that Russia has no hatred for France. On the contrary, and he besides knows that, as 1 French politician erstwhile said, Talleyrand: “I know how to get a bear out of a cave, but I don’t know how to drag him back in.”The bear is simply a symbol of Russia. And the Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces knows all about it. Then I don't realize why he said that as chief of staff. But he said, so either he thinks we gotta go to war or he has been ordered by president Macro.I'll tell you right now, if I were to receive specified an order, I would immediately resign and make it public. I did not follow certain orders during the operation due to the fact that they were against my professional, humanitarian, and Christian conscience. At this point, I'd give up. Period. due to the fact that if this continues, yes, we will have a war with Russia! And I repeat, we will be responsible. So I completely disagree with specified statements, but, well, I don't have a liable function.
So for the record, Fabien Mandon, chief of staff of the general, said before the mayors' legislature that the French had to prepare their children for war. That message caused real outrage.
- Yes, it's causing a stir. And this isn't over. In my opinion, there will be consequences.
Betrayed de Gaulle
Local elections will take place in 2026 and presidential elections in 2027. Emmanuel Macron won't be able to run again due to the fact that he'll be out of 2 terms he's entitled to. Do you think we can number on a change of policy if there is another government in France?
– I have experience from 2017. I was moving for president. Officially, I obtained 84 signatures while 500 are required. I... I know. I can't tell you what my sources are, but I actually had over 1,000. And, let me say this, I have concluded that the political strategy in France is completely blocked.This is what de Gaulle himself called a disastrous organization system. Today, practically all politicians call themselves Gaullists, yet they betray de Gaulle.Because since de Gaulle's departure, a disastrous organization strategy has been restored that blocks everything. And I was an outsider candidate. So I was blocked. And unless this disastrous organization strategy is dismantled, well, France will proceed to fall. due to the fact that political parties actually do what you might call a de facto tyranny. This is not bloody tyranny, although they actually do tyranny: we are not allowed to do it, we are forced to do it, etc. There is no real freedom anymore. And the vast majority of politicians in France don't even realize it anymore. They don't even realize the strategy has a tyranny over us. And they say we live in democracy... We haven't lived in democracy in a long time. So, in order to change France, well, we gotta put an end to a disastrous organization system. That's what de Gaulle did, but it only lasted 10 years. due to the fact that after he left, we went back to the organization system. So, that's 1 way to put it, we can't change the situation in France until we get free of this catastrophic system. So, how do we do that? How do we do that? I'm listening.
Closed system
I just wanted to explain to Polish listeners that the parrainage strategy mentioned by you is simply a improvement introduced by president Hollande:In order for a presidential candidate to run, he must get at least 500 mayoral signatures. That's all. And of course, there are obstacles. There are difficulties in getting them.
- There's something else, ma'am. erstwhile upon a time until Mitterrand's time, you had to have 200 secret endorsements. I mean, the candidate received support from the mayors and brought signatures to the Constitutional Council. Then the number of support needed increased to 500, and with the improvement of president Hollande the substance became public. This means that the mayor sends his support straight to the Constitutional Council, which is valid or not. And the candidate is waiting. He's gone. So let me put it this way, it is in itself very unfavorable for the mayor, due to the fact that he is exposed to the public; and this may origin him problems with his constituents, coworkers, etc. And that may besides origin him problems with the Council of the Department, with the Council of the Region... I know for certain – I will not mention names – that in 2017 there were at least 2 regions where the president of the region told his mayors: “If you vote for Tauzin, you will not receive a grant.” A fewer mayors told me that. In France, the strategy is completely blocked in favour of political parties. We request to find a way to change that. And I don't think it's the only country in this situation. I think Britain is in a bad position, too. The Germans have a problem, too. So if we don't change the system, we're stuck.
Education collapse
As far as I'm right, after returning from England, de Gaulle could trust on the administration, on prefects who dealt with the regular cleaning of the country and prevented the takeover of administration by the American elite who wanted to take control of France. Do you think the administration is inactive as patriotic as it was in 1945?
It's a totally different situation. We came out of the German occupation, out of the war, etc. This is simply a completely different situation. And besides, what is very important, there was inactive a sense of national identity, national ties, which we completely, not entirely, but which we have destroyed for years, even through education. Education in France is simply a disaster today. While 30, 40 or 50 years ago we had an absolutely extraordinary education system, now it's a disaster. The ENA they call the national school of administration, I call it the national school of illiteracy, dementia. And it's the same everywhere. That means present the situation is completely different... Of course, there are always people who have France in their heart, I belong to them, and who are truly willing to sacrifice for the country, but there is besides this strategy of organization power structures, plus everything behind it... All the ideologies, the Masons we never talk about, but who are behind all this.
Connection
Think tanks, reflective groups, masons, thought clubs, ideologies...
– Think tanks, ideological clubs that think only of developing their ideology to rule, and it is to regulation by the tyrant method! I wrote a while ago, and I keep the thought that present in many Western countries – especially in France. I don't know, I've never been to Poland, ma'am, so I don't know if it's the same thing, but I think it's not. So, in many Western countries, people are now nothing more than producers and consumers before they become relics suitable only for euthanasia due to the fact that they cost more than anything they deliver. And that is absolutely tragic. We request to make extremist changes here. So how do we do that? We request leaders for that. For this it takes people who are truly willing to give their best, but with a sense of duty; that is, “I am here to rule, and governance means service, and not serving myself.” It means connecting, not sharing. specified people exist, we have specified in France; all country has specified people, but how to bring them into power is an full issue, and it is not easy.
I understand; we gotta put the church back in the center of the village and the man in the center of everything.
– precisely – we must reconstruct the church to the center of the village. I agree.
Thank you so much for the interview.
– Thank you very much and I am at your disposal if you request another conversation
Well, thank you very much, thank you very much.
Aleksandra Klunik-Schaller spoke
