Don't put off having kids, for someday, or you'll wake up besides late.
with age changes the imagination of essential matters
What's crucial present - impressing the environment, pretending to be independent, having money
In x years, she'll lose weight and another things will become important
Trust the Opinion of Elders From Yourself
Trust
In the 1920s, 24 million people lived in Poland - a large group of Jews, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Germans ... did individual worry about how many of us there will be in 30 years?
I know, at the time, 4-6 and 12 children were born in the family, but the mortality rate was higher.
reprint
Prof. Jończy: We have a weak generation. The next generation may barely be
- I'm sorry. The most will be people working, enterprising, paying taxes. On the another hand, there will be a large deal of aged people with low income and demanding care. And this is not only a problem for Poland, but for Europe as a whole, although the seniors are richer there," says Romuald Jończy, prof. of economical Sciences, Head of the Department of Economics and manager of the Centre for Migration, Depopulation and improvement investigation at the University of Opole.
reprint
Prof. Jończy: We have a weak generation. The next generation may barely be
- I'm sorry. The most will be people working, enterprising, paying taxes. On the another hand, there will be a large deal of aged people with low income and demanding care. And this is not only a problem for Poland, but for Europe as a whole, although the seniors are richer there," says Romuald Jończy, prof. of economical Sciences, Head of the Department of Economics and manager of the Centre for Migration, Depopulation and improvement investigation at the University of Opole.
Krzysztof Ogiolda
2025-09-10
- I'm sorry. The conventional authority of the elders, the home and the school, which was the foundation of the views, "was cut off", frequently related to going to large cities, but the fresh 1 did not appear," says Prof. Romuald Jończy.
Romuald Jończy – conversation
Krzysztof Ogiolda: Not only research, but besides the reflection of life on a regular basis shows that the Polish population is shrinking, that as a society we age. At the same time, the president of the Republic of Poland vetoes the law on assistance to immigrants from Ukraine. And many of us like it. It is not easy to realize from the position of a conscious citizen.
Prof. Romuald Jończy: – The issue is complex. Poland is depopulating. The problem is not just the decline of the population. due to the fact that mostly it would be good if people in Poland, Europe and the planet were less. This would benefit the exploitation of the environment and resources, which, in fact, many conflicts are facing. The problem is that those who are born are three, 4 times less than those who quit (I am talking about the number of vintages).
There are areas where births are 10-15 times little than 70 years ago. A society with specified a structure of age – and with comparatively mediocre seniors – cannot last without a crisis or even a heart attack. So far, it has always been that the younger years kept older and cared for them. And in Poland and Europe, these young people will not be adequate to guarantee self-supporting development. Or even maintaining a standard of living.
Why is this happening? For centuries, there seemed to be nothing more natural than young people joining couples and wanting children...
– It is hard to say whether there is simply a crucial deficiency of direct contacts – closure in the distant bubble. Surely, youths present have a different strategy of values. He wants to live for himself and be liable for himself. It does not have much of a community attitude. Although this concern for the community and efficiency of the Community institutions affects the quality of life.
In addition, what you have touched, all this is happening in the context of what we are seeing in east Europe and in the world. I am reasoning about the force of people from another continents on Europe and the Russian-Ukrainian war. In view of the common sense and given first how much we deficiency young people, and secondly, that we quit having children and that we are so forced to recruit immigrants, we could not imagine in Poland a better situation than the present one, allowing to someway block the teardrop that we created.
People from Ukraine have much better qualities than immigrants and refugees arriving in the US or Europe from the South. They are close culturally, religiously, and civilizationally, they want to work, they are entrepreneurial, there are many women and children among them. Crime is no different from Polish. The ancestors of many of them erstwhile lived within the borders of the Polish state. It was the country that drove them distant without their fault.
If the demographic situation is that we request outsiders, then we should want them the most. The luck of the Ukrainians has precisely met our nonsubjective needs. The needs of the labour and human market, demographic. due to the fact that we have a country that is depopulating. With fewer and small dynamic youth who do not want to participate in its improvement and maintenance.
Can't we number on our own kids?
– To any extent, it's besides late. They will begin – even if they abruptly start mass birth – to make something in 25-30 years. And until then, we'll just add up. That'll incriminate us first. Profits can only come after, and they're questionable. due to the fact that these kids, erstwhile they grow up, would gotta work and not leave. And that's not certain...
If you and my parents thought, as many young people think today, that first I gotta have a unchangeable job, a car, an apartment, a doctorate and a dog, and then a baby, maybe, no of us would have been born...
– This is simply a question of fashion, of getting more and more values and views from the Internet. This is due to the confusion of modern young people. They frequently don't know what they want. They don't truly realize themselves. The conventional authority of the elders, the home and the school, which was the foundation of the views, “was broken off”, frequently associated with going to large cities, but the fresh 1 did not appear. It is hard for the net to be an authority, and the intent of travel.
Many of these youths are trampling around and afraid of commitment. It's not just about having kids, it's about being liable at work, having a home, having a car, if that generates responsibilities or expenses. They drive into permanent temporaryity. And children and their own household cannot be put off forever for biological reasons.
I do not think that this problem is mainly due to the deficiency of housing or livelihoods, due to the fact that in the past it has been much worse with work, and housing is abundant where they are going, not where they are going. And yet it was then that families were founded due to the fact that it was a life goal – girl, wife, children, work, house, car – only then everything else. Only a small bit can it be related to the deficiency of regulation of a state promoting active people with children.
Maybe a small subconscious, but at the beginning of Russia's war with Ukraine, we reacted well. We have welcomed the refugees we need, with unprecedented hospitality.
– This first spontaneity and beginning of the heart were very noble. But they besides testified about not preparing society and the state for specified phenomena. There has been a large group of people who request to be given certain rights to take care of, but besides their own society to educate in the context of these rights and support of visitors. We're taking this exam with difficulty. present about refugees, it's better not to say anything affirmative about immigrants. Whoever tries to rationalize this, to appeal to profitability, to European commitments, or yet to Christian values, in which there are many themes about hospitality and assistance to visitors, is sentenced to hate...
We're going to miss all the geriatric doctors and guardians of the elderly?
– The most will be people working, enterprising, paying taxes. On the another hand, there will be a large deal of aged people with low income and demanding care. And this is not just a problem for Poland, but for Europe as a whole, although the seniors are more prosperous there. The economies of another parts of the planet will grow faster. Europe is already and will proceed to become an economical “third world”.
The first is Southeast Asia. Second America. An ageing Europe is only behind them. In India and China alone, which are very dynamic, there are 3 times more people than in the European Union. We frequently think that we will proceed to be the navel of the world, and that we are not. Production is being driven out of Europe in bulk. I do not know how much it will be possible to return to Europe on its own production, service and resource.
Bearing in head what has been said about the global, European and nationwide context, let us focus in the second part of our discussion on the situation in the region. For decades, our business card, but besides our problem were the trips – especially the two-passporters – behind working abroad. But it's more of a past.
– We are no different from Poland through migration movements as we did 20-30 years ago. presently the Silesian population working abroad is 4-5 times less than before. There are places in Poland where there are more specified economical migrants. Depopulation from the past is highly noticeable. besides due to the fact that these people who left 30, 40, even 50 years ago are checked out, and on paper they inactive lived here. But in fresh years, the part of the voivodship where there are no Ślązaks has actually depopulated more – more people are leaving from there, little frequently abroad, more frequently to large cities of the country.
Why are they leaving, even erstwhile their grandparents' home is waiting for them in the village?
– People 40-50 and children don't leave. Large cities are attractive to those who go to college. There is simply a better, more interesting cultural and entertaining offer. And if they go to college, they usually stay in those large cities. During their studies, they make friends, find partners, work and contacts. They grow roots so hard that they do not return to these peripheral places of origin.
Although the future in the large city isn't always bright. At any point in your life, it turns out that it is not good to live far from where you come from. due to the fact that you're alone due to the fact that there's no 1 to help, there's a piston, sound and a professional rat race. And if you want to have your own apartment, you gotta pay your loans. The price for a career is the deficiency of peace typical of the suburbs.
Going to large cities favors not having children?
– It would be easier to have them where the property is frequently available to relatives. And if there's no real estate...
...or grandparents who would be happy to take care of their children...
– Then the substance of parenting moves more easy over time. In a moment, young people are 35 years old and older and decisions about children run away. Studies show that people who stay at their place of origin have children more often, sooner or more. Just knowing that my family, that my community is close and can help, is conducive to raising children. due to the fact that in a tight, close environment where everyone knows each another within a fewer miles, we aid each other. You can take a kid to your neighbors, a neighbour can choice them up from kindergarten, if you request them, etc. Not always, erstwhile we decide to leave, we consider that helping ourselves is simply a value.
In many good Silesian homes, besides in the families of intelligent children, very frequently these household and environmental relationships do not appreciate and maintain. Studying in Opole is frequently nothing attractive to them. It attracts Wrocław, Warsaw, Poznań, etc.
– Youth chooses for future professional and economical activities, which they know cannot be pursued at the place of origin. It makes these people no longer work in a tiny country. This is simply a question of matching young people with local labour markets.
What will happen to smaller towns in the region? A list of the most depopulated towns in Poland was published on 1 of the portals. This list included – although not in the close lead – Zawadzki and Zdzieszowice.
– This must be corrected firmly and firmly. In the case of Zdzieszowice and Zawadzki, the main reason for the large number of check-outs is that in the past many people have left these towns. They keep checking out. The population there mostly maintained from the employment and the traditions of entrepreneurship were weak there. If the occupation was missing, you would leave, not start a company, due to the fact that there were no specified traditions.
This area with Gogolin and Krapkowice is 1 of the most favoured areas of Poland. surely Zdzieszowice and Zawadzki were not communes with a large scale of trips in the last decade. These are delayed checkouts and the effects of migration from the past – due to the fact that not only 20-30 year olds from 1990 are missing, but their children and grandchildren.
The network contains a map showing to which large provincial cities in Poland residents of various municipalities are moving.
– These maps are besides based on reports. We do not have real data on how many residents are no longer present, and are permanently present in Wrocław or Warsaw, due to the fact that these people do not check out. In general, the population in Poland is headed to 5 major agglomerations: Wrocław (and from the full of south-western Poland), Poznań, Tricity, Warsaw and Krakow. The Reichs besides have a certain ability to attract. Importantly, Katowice is poorly attracted to it.
The exit balance of the Śląskie and Opolskie voivodships is almost balanced, or is beneficial for Opole. Smaller regional cities, specified as Opole, mostly attract young people from their own region. Young people from these cities leave the region much more often. In our early youth, we want to go somewhere else and have fun. If someone's from Ozimka, they'll find something fresh in Opole. If individual has already gone to Opole to advanced school or live there, they frequently like to go to college in a large city.
Most parents seem to respect the freedom to choose their children so much that they do not even effort to halt them. They dominate attitudes like: let them do what they want and let them go to large cities...
– We leave them a completely free choice, sometimes not even trying to convince them. We push them out a lot due to the fact that we want them to get better. And they buy it. They are filled with reasoning of the generation “Z”: Everything for me, I am important, nothing else matters. The social consequences will be what we talk about. We're alone. Young people accumulate in large cities and are not necessarily happy about it. These are as crucial as rhetorical questions: Do we have children for ourselves, besides so that 1 day 1 of us will take care of us? Or for themselves? Or the world. A busy generation of parents, generation X spoils their children. He wanted them to be better than themselves.
That's understandable to any extent.
– Yes, but late I heard from 1 of my friends: I did wrong. You may have had to give your boy 5 1000 erstwhile he turned 18 years old and say, “Son, I love you, but now go get yourself a area and start surviving on your own. If you're resourceful, I'll aid you with any good initiative. To be independent.” And we like to fondle and co-finance our children as long as possible. It is besides a substance of the fact that after a generation of strong comes weak and does not want to gain besides much.
Will the next 1 be strong again?
– I have not studied it, but I have not observed it more closely, and I do not announcement that strong, entrepreneurial parents in top professions – legal, medical, scientific, or entrepreneur – have as strong a generation of children. It is likely that their attitude is more frequently taken by grandchildren or casual coworkers – smart and determined to make social advancement. But in our case, this next generation, the generation of grandchildren may almost be gone.
Today's 20-year-olds are watching their parents work hard, and they don't want to live like this. They don't want to get so tired. There is simply quite a few evidence that current youth in the future will take care of themselves, but it will not be developmental, competitive or competitive in relation to e.g. Asians, with whom it is likely to compete. due to the fact that she doesn't have to, if she's equipped by her parents, chooses to live for herself, with a smartphone, and without children, she won't gotta worry about the environment, the future and the world. But let's hope it doesn't...
opolska360.pl/prof-romuald-jon-j-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l
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2025-09-10
- I'm sorry. The conventional authority of the elders, the home and the school, which was the foundation of the views, "was cut off", frequently related to going to large cities, but the fresh 1 did not appear," says Prof. Romuald Jończy.
Romuald Jończy – conversation
Krzysztof Ogiolda: Not only research, but besides the reflection of life on a regular basis shows that the Polish population is shrinking, that as a society we age. At the same time, the president of the Republic of Poland vetoes the law on assistance to immigrants from Ukraine. And many of us like it. It is not easy to realize from the position of a conscious citizen.
Prof. Romuald Jończy: – The issue is complex. Poland is depopulating. The problem is not just the decline of the population. due to the fact that mostly it would be good if people in Poland, Europe and the planet were less. This would benefit the exploitation of the environment and resources, which, in fact, many conflicts are facing. The problem is that those who are born are three, 4 times less than those who quit (I am talking about the number of vintages).
There are areas where births are 10-15 times little than 70 years ago. A society with specified a structure of age – and with comparatively mediocre seniors – cannot last without a crisis or even a heart attack. So far, it has always been that the younger years kept older and cared for them. And in Poland and Europe, these young people will not be adequate to guarantee self-supporting development. Or even maintaining a standard of living.
Why is this happening? For centuries, there seemed to be nothing more natural than young people joining couples and wanting children...
– It is hard to say whether there is simply a crucial deficiency of direct contacts – closure in the distant bubble. Surely, youths present have a different strategy of values. He wants to live for himself and be liable for himself. It does not have much of a community attitude. Although this concern for the community and efficiency of the Community institutions affects the quality of life.
In addition, what you have touched, all this is happening in the context of what we are seeing in east Europe and in the world. I am reasoning about the force of people from another continents on Europe and the Russian-Ukrainian war. In view of the common sense and given first how much we deficiency young people, and secondly, that we quit having children and that we are so forced to recruit immigrants, we could not imagine in Poland a better situation than the present one, allowing to someway block the teardrop that we created.
People from Ukraine have much better qualities than immigrants and refugees arriving in the US or Europe from the South. They are close culturally, religiously, and civilizationally, they want to work, they are entrepreneurial, there are many women and children among them. Crime is no different from Polish. The ancestors of many of them erstwhile lived within the borders of the Polish state. It was the country that drove them distant without their fault.
If the demographic situation is that we request outsiders, then we should want them the most. The luck of the Ukrainians has precisely met our nonsubjective needs. The needs of the labour and human market, demographic. due to the fact that we have a country that is depopulating. With fewer and small dynamic youth who do not want to participate in its improvement and maintenance.
Can't we number on our own kids?
– To any extent, it's besides late. They will begin – even if they abruptly start mass birth – to make something in 25-30 years. And until then, we'll just add up. That'll incriminate us first. Profits can only come after, and they're questionable. due to the fact that these kids, erstwhile they grow up, would gotta work and not leave. And that's not certain...
If you and my parents thought, as many young people think today, that first I gotta have a unchangeable job, a car, an apartment, a doctorate and a dog, and then a baby, maybe, no of us would have been born...
– This is simply a question of fashion, of getting more and more values and views from the Internet. This is due to the confusion of modern young people. They frequently don't know what they want. They don't truly realize themselves. The conventional authority of the elders, the home and the school, which was the foundation of the views, “was broken off”, frequently associated with going to large cities, but the fresh 1 did not appear. It is hard for the net to be an authority, and the intent of travel.
Many of these youths are trampling around and afraid of commitment. It's not just about having kids, it's about being liable at work, having a home, having a car, if that generates responsibilities or expenses. They drive into permanent temporaryity. And children and their own household cannot be put off forever for biological reasons.
I do not think that this problem is mainly due to the deficiency of housing or livelihoods, due to the fact that in the past it has been much worse with work, and housing is abundant where they are going, not where they are going. And yet it was then that families were founded due to the fact that it was a life goal – girl, wife, children, work, house, car – only then everything else. Only a small bit can it be related to the deficiency of regulation of a state promoting active people with children.
Maybe a small subconscious, but at the beginning of Russia's war with Ukraine, we reacted well. We have welcomed the refugees we need, with unprecedented hospitality.
– This first spontaneity and beginning of the heart were very noble. But they besides testified about not preparing society and the state for specified phenomena. There has been a large group of people who request to be given certain rights to take care of, but besides their own society to educate in the context of these rights and support of visitors. We're taking this exam with difficulty. present about refugees, it's better not to say anything affirmative about immigrants. Whoever tries to rationalize this, to appeal to profitability, to European commitments, or yet to Christian values, in which there are many themes about hospitality and assistance to visitors, is sentenced to hate...
We're going to miss all the geriatric doctors and guardians of the elderly?
– The most will be people working, enterprising, paying taxes. On the another hand, there will be a large deal of aged people with low income and demanding care. And this is not just a problem for Poland, but for Europe as a whole, although the seniors are more prosperous there. The economies of another parts of the planet will grow faster. Europe is already and will proceed to become an economical “third world”.
The first is Southeast Asia. Second America. An ageing Europe is only behind them. In India and China alone, which are very dynamic, there are 3 times more people than in the European Union. We frequently think that we will proceed to be the navel of the world, and that we are not. Production is being driven out of Europe in bulk. I do not know how much it will be possible to return to Europe on its own production, service and resource.
Bearing in head what has been said about the global, European and nationwide context, let us focus in the second part of our discussion on the situation in the region. For decades, our business card, but besides our problem were the trips – especially the two-passporters – behind working abroad. But it's more of a past.
– We are no different from Poland through migration movements as we did 20-30 years ago. presently the Silesian population working abroad is 4-5 times less than before. There are places in Poland where there are more specified economical migrants. Depopulation from the past is highly noticeable. besides due to the fact that these people who left 30, 40, even 50 years ago are checked out, and on paper they inactive lived here. But in fresh years, the part of the voivodship where there are no Ślązaks has actually depopulated more – more people are leaving from there, little frequently abroad, more frequently to large cities of the country.
Why are they leaving, even erstwhile their grandparents' home is waiting for them in the village?
– People 40-50 and children don't leave. Large cities are attractive to those who go to college. There is simply a better, more interesting cultural and entertaining offer. And if they go to college, they usually stay in those large cities. During their studies, they make friends, find partners, work and contacts. They grow roots so hard that they do not return to these peripheral places of origin.
Although the future in the large city isn't always bright. At any point in your life, it turns out that it is not good to live far from where you come from. due to the fact that you're alone due to the fact that there's no 1 to help, there's a piston, sound and a professional rat race. And if you want to have your own apartment, you gotta pay your loans. The price for a career is the deficiency of peace typical of the suburbs.
Going to large cities favors not having children?
– It would be easier to have them where the property is frequently available to relatives. And if there's no real estate...
...or grandparents who would be happy to take care of their children...
– Then the substance of parenting moves more easy over time. In a moment, young people are 35 years old and older and decisions about children run away. Studies show that people who stay at their place of origin have children more often, sooner or more. Just knowing that my family, that my community is close and can help, is conducive to raising children. due to the fact that in a tight, close environment where everyone knows each another within a fewer miles, we aid each other. You can take a kid to your neighbors, a neighbour can choice them up from kindergarten, if you request them, etc. Not always, erstwhile we decide to leave, we consider that helping ourselves is simply a value.
In many good Silesian homes, besides in the families of intelligent children, very frequently these household and environmental relationships do not appreciate and maintain. Studying in Opole is frequently nothing attractive to them. It attracts Wrocław, Warsaw, Poznań, etc.
– Youth chooses for future professional and economical activities, which they know cannot be pursued at the place of origin. It makes these people no longer work in a tiny country. This is simply a question of matching young people with local labour markets.
What will happen to smaller towns in the region? A list of the most depopulated towns in Poland was published on 1 of the portals. This list included – although not in the close lead – Zawadzki and Zdzieszowice.
– This must be corrected firmly and firmly. In the case of Zdzieszowice and Zawadzki, the main reason for the large number of check-outs is that in the past many people have left these towns. They keep checking out. The population there mostly maintained from the employment and the traditions of entrepreneurship were weak there. If the occupation was missing, you would leave, not start a company, due to the fact that there were no specified traditions.
This area with Gogolin and Krapkowice is 1 of the most favoured areas of Poland. surely Zdzieszowice and Zawadzki were not communes with a large scale of trips in the last decade. These are delayed checkouts and the effects of migration from the past – due to the fact that not only 20-30 year olds from 1990 are missing, but their children and grandchildren.
The network contains a map showing to which large provincial cities in Poland residents of various municipalities are moving.
– These maps are besides based on reports. We do not have real data on how many residents are no longer present, and are permanently present in Wrocław or Warsaw, due to the fact that these people do not check out. In general, the population in Poland is headed to 5 major agglomerations: Wrocław (and from the full of south-western Poland), Poznań, Tricity, Warsaw and Krakow. The Reichs besides have a certain ability to attract. Importantly, Katowice is poorly attracted to it.
The exit balance of the Śląskie and Opolskie voivodships is almost balanced, or is beneficial for Opole. Smaller regional cities, specified as Opole, mostly attract young people from their own region. Young people from these cities leave the region much more often. In our early youth, we want to go somewhere else and have fun. If someone's from Ozimka, they'll find something fresh in Opole. If individual has already gone to Opole to advanced school or live there, they frequently like to go to college in a large city.
Most parents seem to respect the freedom to choose their children so much that they do not even effort to halt them. They dominate attitudes like: let them do what they want and let them go to large cities...
– We leave them a completely free choice, sometimes not even trying to convince them. We push them out a lot due to the fact that we want them to get better. And they buy it. They are filled with reasoning of the generation “Z”: Everything for me, I am important, nothing else matters. The social consequences will be what we talk about. We're alone. Young people accumulate in large cities and are not necessarily happy about it. These are as crucial as rhetorical questions: Do we have children for ourselves, besides so that 1 day 1 of us will take care of us? Or for themselves? Or the world. A busy generation of parents, generation X spoils their children. He wanted them to be better than themselves.
That's understandable to any extent.
– Yes, but late I heard from 1 of my friends: I did wrong. You may have had to give your boy 5 1000 erstwhile he turned 18 years old and say, “Son, I love you, but now go get yourself a area and start surviving on your own. If you're resourceful, I'll aid you with any good initiative. To be independent.” And we like to fondle and co-finance our children as long as possible. It is besides a substance of the fact that after a generation of strong comes weak and does not want to gain besides much.
Will the next 1 be strong again?
– I have not studied it, but I have not observed it more closely, and I do not announcement that strong, entrepreneurial parents in top professions – legal, medical, scientific, or entrepreneur – have as strong a generation of children. It is likely that their attitude is more frequently taken by grandchildren or casual coworkers – smart and determined to make social advancement. But in our case, this next generation, the generation of grandchildren may almost be gone.
Today's 20-year-olds are watching their parents work hard, and they don't want to live like this. They don't want to get so tired. There is simply quite a few evidence that current youth in the future will take care of themselves, but it will not be developmental, competitive or competitive in relation to e.g. Asians, with whom it is likely to compete. due to the fact that she doesn't have to, if she's equipped by her parents, chooses to live for herself, with a smartphone, and without children, she won't gotta worry about the environment, the future and the world. But let's hope it doesn't...
opolska360.pl/prof-romuald-jon-j-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l
18
